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Classic versus modern: What to buy in an EV world?

Discussion in 'Porsche' started by Bullfighter, Jun 21, 2022.

  1. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 26, 2005
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    Good video about the modern/classic decision from the perspective of a millennial. As EVs very gradually replace ICE cars, enthusiasts will need to decide whether/which ICE cars are long term keepers. I thought it was revealing that a younger enthusiast really appreciates cars from before he was born.

    Obviously posting this because I agree — an air-cooled 911 should be better to own and maintain in an EV future. I would go with a newer EV and reserve a garage space for a classic Porsche.





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  3. ipsedixit

    ipsedixit Formula Junior

    The romanticism over air-cooled Porsches is just that, romanticism.

    An air-cooled 911 is a fun car to drive, but I would never want to own one.

    Sort of like a hyper high maintenance super model. Great to date, not to marry.

    If I was to pick one Porsche for a long-term keeper, it would probably be the 911R.
     
  4. Shorn355

    Shorn355 F1 Rookie
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    Or for the price of a 911R you could have a 991.2 GT3 Touring (exactly the same car for the most part) + a 993 air-cooled (not a Speedster mind you but a normal 993) + a brand new Kia EV and enough money left over to install the charging station for the EV :)
     
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  5. ipsedixit

    ipsedixit Formula Junior

    No.

    The 991.2 GT3 is not the same car a the 911R -- even "for the most part". Eg., LWFW, numbered car, less sound deadening, different engine (from the 991.1 GT3 RS with a lower redline at 8500k and not the 991.2 GT3 engine with a 9k redline). The whole of those differences taken collectively is literally greater than just the sum of those parts (to butcher Aristotle's famous saying).

    And as to having both the 991.2 GT3 and an air-cooled? Hard pass. I always, and I mean always, prefer Quality over Quantity.

    It's one reason I daily a Pista.
     
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  6. Shorn355

    Shorn355 F1 Rookie
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    Good point- less hp and lower redline- 911R vs GT3T- and 4x the price-

    And the quality of 993 Porsches is beyond reproach-

    Pistas are phenomenal-

    Cheers :cool:
     
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  8. Shorn355

    Shorn355 F1 Rookie
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    I will correct myself- 911R- same HP- lower redline than 991.2 GT3T. I prefer to drive cars versus spend 4x and dust them weekly.

    993s are bulletproof

    Pistas are amazing- Personally I prefer NA over turbo so prefer Speciale- Same as I prefer my 458S over either 488 or F8- But that's just me.

    Serious props to anyone who dailys a Pista! That means you would probably actually drive the 911R!!

    Cheers :cool::cool:
     
  9. ipsedixit

    ipsedixit Formula Junior

    What else would I do with it?
     
  10. Shorn355

    Shorn355 F1 Rookie
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    Park it with museum tape around it like most- Sad but true :eek:
     
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  11. ipsedixit

    ipsedixit Formula Junior

    I can no longer afford museum tape.

    #InflationSucks
     
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  13. Island Time

    Island Time F1 Veteran
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    In comparison to other sports cars, mileages of the air-cooled 911 fleet suggest otherwise. They are cars built (and obviously used) for driving.

    It’s hard to argue with the numbers.
     
  14. mrar

    mrar Karting

    Jul 23, 2014
    92
    australia
    Great choice!
    Real mans car.
    Gets the ladies.
    Forget the modern plastic fake.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I agree. I’m on my second air-cooled 911. Few if any classic cars provide that kind of rush combined with everyday driveability.


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  16. mclaudio

    mclaudio Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2003
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    911R photos showing the car in its natural environment. Haha.

    It’s an air-cooled 911 that was launched before I was born yet I would own…alongside an EV (and a Ferrari race car).
     
  17. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Air cooled 911s are fantastic daily drivers, as long as you live somewhere that isn't too hot or too cold. They are reliable and fun.

    That said, if I could only have one fun car, it would be my 981 Cayman S. It does it all.

    Oh, and I have owned EVs for the last 9 years.

     
  18. ipsedixit

    ipsedixit Formula Junior

    Are the numbers you are referring to miles/year? Or just total miles?

    If the latter, then it's misleading as air-cooled have been around for quite a long time, and certainly longer than water-cooled 911s.
     
  19. Island Time

    Island Time F1 Veteran
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    Slice it up any way you want to. The market has spoken. German engineering is designed for driving.

    If it’s high-maintenance romanticism you desire, I’d suggest Italy.
     
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  20. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The "romanticism" reference is interesting, because in general I associate it with vintage and classic cars. Ferrari 512 BB? Absolutely. F12? Too digital. Porsche 911/992? Nice car, but kind of technology-focused. Porsche 356 Speedster? Absolutely. 1950s Alfa Giulietta Sprint Veloce? Absolutely. New Alfa Giulietta? Nope. Jag E-Type? Absolutely! Jag F-Type? Nope.

    What I enjoy are the sound, smells, and immediacy of the older cars. Even German cars can feel like vintage racers. So while I'd agree that air-cooled Porsches are romanticized, it's because they push all the right buttons. In my subconscious, I know what a sports car feels like, looks like, sounds like. As great as the new cars are, the classics are the ones that make me remember why I got into sports cars in the first place. Hint: It wasn't 0-60 or electric steering.

    So, romanticism yes. But given the choice between a '70s Porsche or a '70s Alfa for a cross country trip without a mechanic, it's just no contest. Among classic European sports cars, Porsche is hands-down the best in terms of reliability and durability. That doesn't mean I wouldn't entertain the idea of an E-Type as a fourth car and sunny weekend toy. But you have to approach it as a hobby car. I can do cars and coffee gatherings with my 964, but if I have to pick up a shirt at the dry cleaners it's always ready for the boring errand or two.
     
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  21. ipsedixit

    ipsedixit Formula Junior

    #18 ipsedixit, Jun 23, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
    Like I said, an air-cooled 911 is a fun car to drive, but not to own.

    My friends (yes, multiple friends, as in more than one) have owned several 993's and 964's. All of them have had problems with oil consumption (to be expected, not a big deal, except one car consumed so much oil on a regular basis it almost made oil changes irrelevant), oil leaks (pain in the ass), repeated ruptures of oil lines (unexplainable and unacceptable), rust (pain in the ass), and just niggles with the A/C. And repairs were not cheap (even by today's inflationary standards).

    Plus, driving the car leaves you with a nice perfum-y stench of oil on yourself.

    All that said, they're fun cars to drive. But like I said, I would never want to own one. Drive? Yes. Own, NFW.
     
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  22. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    No oil leaks yet, but certainly possible after 30 years. A/C is very good, but it did need a $470 sensor replaced due to noise.



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  23. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If your bench mark for an "air cooled" Porsche is a 993 or 964, then I sort of see what you are saying. Have you ever owned or driven a good 911SC?

     
  24. mrar

    mrar Karting

    Jul 23, 2014
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    australia
    Yep, Or Carrera 2.7 mfi, Carrera 3.o, 3lt / 3.3lt 930 turbos, swb 68s, hot rod 72 3lt twin spark many more.

    They all do something different/special , without owning spending time, you'll will never get it, but that's ok as not trying to convert.

    Sorry to hear your mates bought duds @ipsedixit but that is what can happen with any car if not looked after maintained.

    I drove my mates 996.1 gt3 when he bought that years ago and on that drive I thought this car is way to much for the road and didn't like it. Over the time that he owned it I got to drive it again and see it out on the track. Anyway after 5 years he wanted to sell, I own this car now. Owning it and driving shows you what these cars can do, you can't understand that from a couple of drives when the owner is stitting next to you or you know it's not your car.
     
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  25. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 10, 2007
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    My vote is classic.

    Had a 993, then a 997.2.

    Despite the increased performance I missed -everything- about the 993. So, got another 993 and I'm happy now.

    The driving experience, looks, sound, feel, smell of anything newer is just not for me.
     
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  26. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    When I sold my 993, the buyer was the designer of the LA Forum arena. His 996 had just been stolen, and he had owned a 993 previously. He told me it was an easy decision.


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  27. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
    4,744
    I have 2 analog classics so I have voted twice (as any good Chicagoan would). Because they are the polar opposite of the sterile cars of the future....and the more I hear about the future, the only thing I want is a sex robot.

    OTOH, the only Porsche I would want is a 991.2 GT3 with PDK...would make a good retirement gift....along with a sex robot.
     
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