Classiche Annual Inspection

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by WCH, Jun 21, 2017.

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  1. carguyjohn350

    carguyjohn350 Formula 3
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    How much is the GTO???
     
  2. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran
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    I think modding the car post-Classiche certification is unlikely for any individual owner -- I can't imagine anybody going through the process if their intent was to mod the car. The fact that parts are often borrowed to pass does provide some rationale for annual inspections, but annual inspections seem like an undue hardship. The certification will mean more under that rule, but it seems like fewer will go through certification process, so I don't know how much of a "money grab" it will end up being (regardless of their intent). I would not want to go through an annual inspection even if they were free -- just too much of a hassle even though I know it would always pass.

    I think a more pragmatic approach, that would achieve 95% of the same goal, would be for "change of ownership" to trigger reinspections. If somebody cheated and borrowed parts to have a certificate hanging on their wall, who cares? If they cheated to increase the selling price of a car that will no longer be compliant after returning the borrowed parts, the "change of ownership" reinspection trigger will detect it immediately, so they won't (in practical terms) be able to list non-compliant cars as Classiche because the new owner will immediately lose certification of a car that is no longer compliant.
     
  3. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    In reality , the certification has always been a reflection of the car at a "point in time". Nobody should ever value a certification as anything more than that.
     
  4. francisn

    francisn Formula 3
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    The whole thing bemuses me. I enquired casually about getting my 308GT4 Classiched here in UK. The man that knows told me that the fact I had installed modern radiator fans, required the lights direct from the battery using relays, the previous owner had fitted a modern Momo steering wheel (I still have the original) and that my car has Superformance 16" aluminium wheels rather than original Ferrari 14" magnesium ones was all OK. But it would fail without an original factory exhaust (a previous owner fitted a ceramic coated Stebro exhaust).

    I didn't even enquire about the price, but if the US price of 3K dollars relates to what I would have to pay in UK then why would I bother. Cost of a new exhaust plus the Classiche charge is not going to increase the value of my car by the amount of the cost. No-one in UK would take any notice of Classiche for a GT4, and probably not for any other 308 either. Anyway, I like my exhaust!
     
  5. kjw9028

    kjw9028 Karting
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    I had my 1969 365GTC Classiched by Ferrari of Beverly Hills last August at a cost of approx $6500. Herd the car qualified but still waiting for books. The car wasn't presented to the panel until earlier this month/June. Supposedly backlogged and needed a few extra pics that the folks at Ferrari Bev Hills were slow to get to them. Not very impressed with the process so far.
     
  6. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
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    This ONLY applies to owners who know they will be eventually selling a previously certified Ferrari..

    And even in those cases, the market has and always will have the last word on the true value of the car, annual check ups or not.
     
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  8. SAFE4NOW

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    ......$19,375.00..... + Cost to perform the inspection itself + metallurgical tests...


    In your 1st paragraph, you mentioned you would not have the annual inspection even if it were free... are you not having the car serviced annually anyways?

    I agree with your second paragraph, and I think that may be the intent.


    The Classiche panel in Italy only meets 3 times a year**, so applications are submitted in batches. FNA does a fantastic job of pre-checking applications so any imperfections are caught before they go in front of the panel in Italy... THAT would be a delay!

    Nothing is fast, 4-6 months is the norm, some cycle faster if timed right.

    S

    ** Or so I am told.
     
  9. SAFE4NOW

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    Are the photos and notes your own?

    I have not seen the new booklet with any of the Classiche we have processed this year.

    Sign me curious,

    S
     
  10. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    #34 TTR, Jun 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
    Just like FCA sanctioned concours score, be it at Platinum, Gold or Silver level.
    Only a reflection of what deductions presiding judges did or didn't find that day at that event, nothing more.
     
  11. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    I can kind of see the point in "Certification" if/when setting a car up for sale, especially when considering the surge in recent years of investor/speculator type buyers, many whom may not know or even care much, if at all, about the cars and may not be willing to take time for "old school" due diligence and research, but will trust "factory certified" commodity status allowing them to make quick "market" moves, like a "smart" hero investor is supposed to.
    So, for better or worse, offering a "certified" car will likely attract wider pool of buyers.

    And I wouldn't be surprised if the idea of maintaining the certified status with annual inspections stems from the need of these same investor/speculators to be ensured their "portfolio" content remains solid.

    So will next step be making the entire program non-transferable, forcing the next owner to start from scratch again and providing an opportunity to sue the seller if things aren't as expected ?
     
  12. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I'm more interested in owning a car that can be fully enjoyed on the road than one that is certified as having the original factory defects. These cars are modified for good reasons.
     
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  13. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #37 miurasv, Jun 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
    The only sure way of getting the Classiche Certified specification car as it last left the factory you may have agreed to buy from a seller is to collect it from Ferrari Classiche or the Ferrari Classiche authorised Inspector at the time of the actual inspection. There is a big problem however if the determination isn't actually made immediately upon inspection and the book supplied until some time after the inspection giving the dishonest time to have removed the genuine parts they may have borrowed and installed just for the inspection.

    Doesn't the information gathered at the inspection have to go before the Classiche Committee before the granting of the certificate?

    It must be said that Ferrari Classiche can't be blamed for devious people. As always, buy the seller!!!
     
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  15. swift53

    swift53 F1 Rookie
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    I forget where I enquired, but an "official source" told me I would me I would have to direct my enquiries to Panama as I live in Central America.

    Next, called the dealer in Panama, the person I spoke to, head of OPS,
    did not know what a Dino was. :)
    They would certify if I sent them the car, maybe....first they would have to see it, and no, they would not fly to the car, me paying of course..

    What a joke!

    Regards, Alberto
     
  16. johngtc

    johngtc Formula Junior
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    (For a 250 GTO)

    Does this tell you something? Probably no model is better documented than the GTO, warts and all, amd most if not all have had work done during a long racing career.

    Should the price relate to the cost of the process, or is it another example of charging what you can get away with? The higher the value, the higher the charge.
     
  17. swift53

    swift53 F1 Rookie
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    "......$19,375.00..... + Cost to perform the inspection itself + metallurgical tests ..."

    Are the metallurgical tests non-invasive?

    Why have one, of 30something cars produced, and have it certified, unless you own a replica / forgery?

    Once saw one, a very real car, that even I could tell that the complete interior had been remade to their liking, with my scarce info, would not certify a car such as this.

    I can understand 'one offs', and I might imagine what those would cost!
     
  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    #41 Marcel Massini, Jun 30, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's 250 GTO chassis #3589 GT being tested by Ferrari Classiche on 20/21 February 2017.
    The very thorough inspection took two days, I was there personally.
    Inspection performed by Ferrari Classiche boss Luigino Barp and engineer Francesco Scaletti.
    The frame was tested on 24 individual points.
    Last photo shows Luigino Barp (on the left) and Francesco Scaletti checking the serial number of 3589 GT.

    Marcel Massini
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  19. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    No.
    They meet once every month, sometimes even more.
    So far almost 6'000 Ferraris have been certified.

    Marcel Massini
     
  20. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran
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    Fantastic pics. Thank you for posting, Marcel.

    I would love to know your honest thoughts on the process, although I suspect you would prefer to take a neutral position.

    I have to say that, after reading the various recent threads, my opinion of the Classiche program is no longer what it once was... to put it kindly.
     
  21. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Rookie
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    That car is now a Daytonastein.

    What a shame. Hopefully someone rescues it one day.
     
  22. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    The cost to certify the car is related to the rarity and perceived value.

    The metallurgical tests are non-invasive, but do remove paint on a fair number of areas on the frame. After the tests, the owner has to repaint those parts of the frame.

    Almost all of the more valuable cars require the factory to "correct" numerous items at significant additional cost to the owner.
     
  23. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran
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    That's a really good point for newer cars that will be serviced at the dealer. My experience with dealer service for vintage cars is not stellar, so that wouldn't be relevant for me.

    If anything is going to be done, I think reinspecting on change of owner would be a pragmatic solution. Classiche certification does capture only a point in time, but if the car changes an hour after the inspection is complete, that's a different story. That change would at least allow a new owner to know what he bought and would discourage deception for cars being Classiched with borrowed components (that won't stay with the car) as sales prep to inflate value.
     
  24. SAFE4NOW

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    LMK when you are ready, I would send a team down to you to Inspect and Classiche it!
    ( For less than you shipping it to us too !! )

    S
     
  25. SAFE4NOW

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    That may be a good compromise, re-inspect at change of ownership, as part of a pre purchase inspection, heck... it would be a pre purchase inspection if a compression test / leak down test was added to the list!

    S
     
  26. SAFE4NOW

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    Agreed, but it is my understanding that the entire panel needs to be present in said meeting, which having everyone in attendance is not so easy... so it may be several months till everyone is in the room at the same time and approve the applications.

    My wording in my initial statement should have been more detailed as above.

    S
     
  27. SAFE4NOW

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    Excellent post by the way!

    S
     

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