Classiche Application Stories

All good points. It will be interesting to see how the Judges at Villa d'Este react to Dino and if invited how the Judges at Pebble
react to her. She is a benchmark whether or not some choose to see that she is.

It will also be interesting to see what the Judges have to say when the first big car restored by Classiche rolls across the Lawn.

 

Once upon a time, this was one of the things that attracted me to Ferraris. That is, if you owned a Ferrari, none of this really mattered, did it?

Frankly, this obsession for a reality that never existed was one of the things that turned me off to vintage Porsches. You know, having value stems that lined up with the crest on the wheel and all that.

Ferrari owners, however, didn't care. After all, we were talking about the top of the food chain, yes?

I remember.

I remember, Malcolm at the Ferrari French Quarter Classic, with bugs on his car, pointing out to the judges how a Daytona should be.

I remember, Tom S with a SuperAmerica that had cat prints across the hood.

I remember, Napolis with a car in the pits at Laguna that looked more like the real thang, than the real thang on the lawn at Pebble.

Sadly, I wonder if some of us will be the last who will remember.

Dale

 

You seem to have misunderstood the whole concept of efiiciency. In Germany turkish workers did things wrong all the time and well trained german workers were put in to make things right when it got out of hand. This may be called "precision" in cases were faults were noticed or cared for, but it is not efficient AT ALL. Efficiency is having a foreman looking over the mechanics shoulder and saying "do better next time" everytime he makes a mistake.

Playing the nazi card is pretty childish. Claiming that Porsches were made by nazis, Ferraris were made by fascists and BMWs are being made by hooded racist torturers in South Carolina is not going to take us anywhere, even if it might seem to explain some quality issues. Best wishes, Kare

 

I'm not a fan of Classiche as it is defined today, but at 3k for certification, quoted hourly rates that seem reasonable for factory service, and a potential market of relatively very few vintage cars that were ever made, it doesn't seem like Classiche revenue would ever move the needle for Ferrari in comparison to current production and merchandising. If they start controlling the vintage sales market, and participate more directly in that high margin revenue, then maybe -- but as it sits it doesn't seem like it will generate meaningful revenue relative to their current business. Is it possible Ferrari had good intentions but it's gone wrong on execution? If they want to help vintage owners, they could start making NLA parts available. Something like gathering the list of parts requests and when there is sufficient demand for a particular part not available elsewhere, they make it available. There are a few simple things they could do to make Classiche bring vintage owner closer to the factory rather than distancing them, so they definitely haven't delivered, but I don't see the big bucks opportunity that would motivate Ferrari to work against the vintage owners.

 

Don't blame Pebble, instead Jack Nethercutt and the mania he's created around the 100 point restoration. I think many of us have seen original and incredible cars at Pebble with a healthy patina.

 

That was 01S in 2006, no?

 

01S? Do you mean 01C/010I?

 

Very well put, Peter.

 

Yeah, sorry, it's been a colorful weekend .

 

That one wasn't judged nor was it able to complete the Pebble Tour.

 

His post is the last word on this subject as far I'm concerned, Ferrari hasn't changed it's stripes they have always been the bandits from Maranello

JV

 

I will restate the facts in case anybody else also misunderstood what I said:
I have a car consigned to the RM Maranello Auction: Specifically, a 1971 Euro 365 GTS/4, more commonly referred to as a Daytona Spyder. I have never had it Classiche Certified and neither do I intend to do it.
RM solicited the car for the auction from me and the only agreement I have is with RM, where the terms of my consignment are spelled out. The Classiche "requirement", if it exists, is NOT a part of my consignment agreement with RM.

Checking the serial numbers and verifying that the car is what it is represented to be is expected from RM, but it is a far cry from the Classiche certification process.

 

+1

 

Regarding Ferrari's Classiche Certification program, the problem will come where you have more than one car claiming to be the specific item.
This is the story I heard, there should be a few of these floating around, Such as the famous (infamous) 1960's racer, 330P ??, crashed at Goodwood in the sixties, in the UK, with fatal consequences. The wreckage, which was by all accounts fairly intact and rewbuildable went to one person in Austria, it was sold to Austria by someone connected at the time, maybe the widow ??. The Austrian apparently still has the car today, So case closed. (This bit is on Barchetta, I believe.)
However, there is another car in Italy, which suddenly appeared in the USA in the 1970's, how the hell did a wreck get to the USA ??, especially when it never left Austria. Meanwhile in the 2000's it is with another owner well known to the factory and guess what it gets certified, so there we have an original but rebuilt car and a replica or what and both claim to be the original car or its last known remains and only one can be certified so which one do we go for, roll the dice take your pick, and either way there will be blood on the floor.
What worries me is if they decide on business grounds to look more favouribly on clients cars, so if in the above situation there is more money, sales, kudos in client A do they certify his car and not others etc........... And all car owners are as honest, just some are more honest than others. And of course some cars are going to end up being destroyed by over zealous certifying and I dont think that is a good strategy.
Do owners need to certify their cars, surely not ??. If you have got a decent car and the paperwork, surely it will stand or fall on its merits.
Lastly when it comes to Pebble Beach and the other concours, these cars should be judged as what they are, racing cars, they are dirty, smelly, dented, scarred tools that were used for winning races. Keep them that way, dont restore them to the point they look like they are brand new, and have no SOUL. Fortunately most events seemed to have realised this and have categories for cars that are in original condition.
ALL IMHO
TIM

 

Sounds like Ferrari is no better than a musclecar when it comes to "documentation". For only $1000 you can verify your
Baldwin Motion Chevrolet, http://www.motionperformance.com/motion.html and only the builder knows how many were actually made.
Hmmmmmmm.... sounds ripe for.....well......you fill in the blanks.

 

RM Auctions appear to take what the consignee says at face value with no or minimum checking.
My personal experience with them was to point out just how many major items were wrong with a car they were listing as totally prize winning correct. Granted it was only a $80k - $90k car rather than a high buck exotic, but they never even responded to my critique. I have always wondered what the buyer (if any) did if it was taken to a show and he discovered it was assembled (nicely I admit) with some major components not even from the correct year.

Cheers
Warren

 

Wonderful to read your post. I have enjoyed your books and articles for many years

 

TIM (Post 65 above):

Not Goodwood - Oulton Park the day before official practice began for the RAC Tourist Trophy. The unfortunate owner-driver was Dick Protheroe, former Royal Air Force nuclear V-bomber force pilot and station commander. He had been racing Jaguars for years before investing in the Ferrari. The accident seemed to have been caused by the throttle jamming open on the entry to Druid's Corner, a fast and deceptive right-hander with trees on the outside. The car more or less disintegrated upon impact and the wreckage burned out. Dick had shone at Reims in 1963 by driving his famous Jaguar E-Type Low Drag Coupe 'CUT 7' to victory over a large Ferrari 250GTO contingent.

Regarding the Ferrari certification scheme most criticisms I have heard concern not the basic fee, but the costs of having the Ferrari factory and its satellites then carry out work it deems necessary before an applicant's car can qualify for certification.

Ferrari is not alone in discovering this apparent classic car world milch cow.

Mercedes-Benz is operating a similar scheme via its Oldtimer operation. Their staff seem to have better understanding and appreciation, however, of the greater experience and historic knowledge of some of their applicants, and of their applicants' chosen specialists.

But when it comes to modern motor industry employees having any understanding and appreciation of the sensitivities, expectations, demands and basic considerations of the old car world one need look no further than Audi's handling of the 1939 Auto Union debacle which effectively put the Christie's auction house motor car department out of business last year.

Audi's relevant executives had approved the re-numbering of the car's surviving chassis in order to claim pre-war Grand Prix-winning status for it.

That's all... (!)

In essence they were simply too ignorant of the significance (and enormity) of their action to appreciate the potential horrors they could have unleashed upon the owner, the auctioneer, any potential buyer...and ultimately upon their own company. Imagine the scope for a damages suit on the grounds of wilful misdescription. That's the danger to which these companies expose themselves - seeking revenue while being in ignorance of the ramifications of their employees (often with the best will in the world) simply getting it all wrong.

One hears increasingly adverse opinion on these factory operations loudly expressed all the time from a broad spectrum of owners, traders, restorers etc. Yet precious few of those people seem to have the backbone to say as much publicly.

So what does that make me? Urrrrggghhhh....

(Somebody tidy up after the body has been removed, would you...)

 

The 330P being discussed is 0818 and is currently before the courts.

 

Such an unfortunate responsibility, for just being an enthusiast. I hope the outcome goes the owner's way.

 

Do you know which jurisdiction?

 

Modena.

 

Does this imply a home field advantage?

 

It might...