Classiche Application Stories

"Did you learn anything about the car that you did not already know?"

I have two cars in the program, both early 4 digit cars; fwiw, neither is one of those achingly beautiful and rare, important cars we all love. We knew in advance that one of the cars would sail through the process (as it did), as it was well documented and had a bit of history. The second car had an incorrect component (not the motor or gearbox) which the factory noted; when that component has been corrected, certification will be completed. I did not know about the incorrect bit when I purchased the car, or at the time the application was submitted; its incorrectness was suggested to me by a marque expert after the car had been submitted and, in due course, the factory also noted the issue.



"Having gone through it what is your opinion of those that were actually in the process?"

Not sure what you mean. Other cars?



"If you had another candidate would you do it again?"

Difficult question to answer. I have two other cars eligible for certification, a 330GTC and an F40. The F40 is an F40; bone stock, one of relatively many cars, really. Though it's a wonderful car, and one I love to drive, the 330GTC also is a production car and one of many examples. I've nonetheless thought about having the 330GTC certified. Having had a thorough PPI done on the 330, by someone I trust, I doubt I would learn anything about the car from certification. The 330GTC or F40 certification book would be something to display at a concours, or on a shelf in the garage. An expensive accessory. Were I planning to sell the 330, I'd get the certification before offering the car. Certainly the sustained effort here to devalue certification gives me pause.



"On your 4 digit car were there any unique features/details that had been hard to previously verify?"

Recently I had the pleasure and privilege of watching a well known marque & model expert go through one of my early cars, as though it were being judged, good and bad, unvarnished. That review of the car was one of the most enjoyable and informative experiences I've had during my ownership of Ferraris. Perhaps eventually I'll get to the point where I know what I don't know. One limitation of the certification process (in the US) is that the applicant interacts only with the dealer and, perhaps, FNA (with whom I spoke directly, and who were very helpful). If your dealer has in its stable of techs someone expert in your model, the value of the experience could be greatly enhanced. So, to answer your question, no, not in or as a result of the certification process.


As a prospective buyer, I would be very interested in seeing a car's certification book. Then, given the scope of the investment, I'd go ahead and research the car's history and have it looked at by an appropriate shop. The book, with its many photos, especially of stamped components - and even acknowledging the limits of what is certified - would be a useful place to start.

 

It was nice to see that Doug's comments in Ferrari Chat were quoted in FML.

Good Stuff.

 

I've spent enough time thinking about this issue over the last couple of years and will eventually have all of my cars go through the process. I hear and understand all of the positions that others know better than those at the factory and were there "back in the day". Guess what, unless all of "those guys" start writing down what they know and make it available, it will be lost when they are no longer with us. Ferrari just celebrated their 60th anniversary, people are still around that were there in the beginning, but they will not be here forever (nor will the collectors that are going through the process).

The other thing that I've picked up being in this hobby for the last ten years is that Ferraris are magnets for con-artists, sleazy used car dealers and other degenerates. Most high dollar items tend to attract those that think they can make a quick buck. While we are dealing with the Italians who have different definitions of ethics, however as a corporate entity, they have deeper pockets to chase after through legal means, so they know they need to be held to a better standard.

I applaud Ferrari for trying to build this program up and they are going through the growing pains to develop a service that their clients want. After all, Ferrari is a corporate entity with the objective of generating revenue. If people will pay, this service will be provided. They are just cars after all.

 

i agree about the importance of the program. i just bought the mercedes equivalent of a hritage certificate for my 1970 280 sl. it will be delivered with all original specs/colors/numbers/options/etc in certifcate form and comes bound in a leather folder. total cost is $125. i find it hard to believe that ferrari would have to charge so much more to look on the shelf and help build their history files. i understand the amount of research going into the oldest cars and making sure that it is profitable to cover the cost of research, we all would be willing to recognise that. but telling me it is going to cost somewhere in the area of $3-5k to tell me that my dino is authentic and this is what came on it is crazy. if the pricing was realistic for what the car was/is, i would have all my cars certified, just for the experience and history. do you think any gt4 owner is going to spend this type of money? the sad thing, is i am willing to bet that most 308 gt4 owners are bigger enthusiests and buy more ferrari crap than any 250 swb owner. ferrari has lost sight of the target market. for a swb buyer to know the true state of the potential purchase is huge, for us little guys, it simply makes no sense

 

No they haven't. They put a shot across the bow at approximately $3000 and got what, 800 applications? That's $2.4 million! I'm sure their costs for the program are covered. When that market dries up, the price will go down (they're still giving color certificates away for free).

Us little guys will get taken care of later, Ferrari is whale fishing until they catch them all...

 

what i meant was a tiered system. let's say cars from 1962 and prior pay a certain fee (give the 250 gte guys a reduction in fee), cars from 62-67 another fee (once again, make an exception for the 330 gt 2+2 guys and the remainder of the 250 gte's or 330 americas), a 67-73 fee (seperating out the dino's and 365 gt 2+2's) and granting a reduced price for the 330 gt, 365 gt guys in relation to their vehicles values vs the 275gtb/4

in fact, i think if ferrari offered a fee based on the vehicle, it would work. if i owned a 275gtb/4, i would be more likely to spend the $4k (average number) than a 365 gt 2+2 would.

really what i am saying, is the guys more likely to own the "less" desirable cars from any ferrari era are the guys most likely to spend money on such a program. make the program fit the car you own. i guarentee ferrari will make a crap load more money. there are more 2+2 ferrari's and dino's from this era than any other ferrari of the same era. why punish us? why eliminate us from the program? i doubt any 250 swb guy that gets a classiche certificate is going to ***** that a dino or 365 gt 2+2 owner got his cert for less money

why not let all of us make ferrari money?

 

Actually the one price system is more democratic. If you lower the costs for the 2+2 guys, Ferrari in effect is giving them the middle finger saying that they are "lesser clients". Not a good way to win repeat business.

 

i disagrre, what ferrari is acknowledging is that these cars are more common and don't require as much research

the proliteriate won't complain and niether will the "exclusive" bunch

 

Actually this is incorrect (at least in the UK). There is already a multi-tier system in place. 308GT4s are £1378 (c.$2750) and prices go all the way up to 250GTOs at £4457 (c.$8900)
Nathan

 

Ferrari Classiche has just announced that there is a significant change in the program. The Classiche certification is only valid for three years!!! After three years the car will have to be recertified.

I guess that this covers any changes that might be made to the car after certification, it also ensures a steady stream of cash from the same owner for the same car.

 

Okay, I'm doing my Big Tex thing here (acting like I'm checking a calendar)... Nope, its not April 1st... Come on. This must be a bad joke... I mean... not even... Ferrari is that retarded... are they?

Dale

 

if this is a correct statement, ferrari might as well bend over and suck...... the present owner. if this program isn't going to last for a LONG time, they can forget about anyone else spending money

 

Not to mention the clients who've already been certified probably wanting their money back!

"Well, thanks for participating in our certification program early on. As a token of our gratitude, we'll allow (require) you to do it all over again in three years. We'll even let you pay all over again! Sounds like fun!"

 

This is no joke, one of our subcontractors was in Italy for Villa d'Este. Afterwards he took a tour of the factory and the Classiche facility. He was told the good news during the tour.

 

May not be a joke but it is pretty funny...

 

There you go - exactly as the man said...

DCN

 

Perhaps they should make it a required annual inspection, kind of like having to go to your service station for an inspection and emissions sticker. A special police division could be established for failure to have your annual Classiche sticker!

License, registration....and Certification please.
Sir, are you aware of the serious penalties for not keeping your Ferrari in original specification....
Tell it to Judge Luca!

 

Not often enough. You can change a car in a heart beat. I think the only solution is to have them install worldwide web cam surveillance and multiple sensors to insure nothing is touched or changed.

Now here's a serious question. Does anyone think this certification will effect the sale of absolutely know history cars?

I some how doubt that if I wanted to sell Dino Competizione that it would be an issue.

 

A serious question on the Internet, ha!

But seriously, I have said this before: It is the cars with stories that will benefit the most from this factory "title washing."

Dale

 

Kind of like installing an OnStar diagnostic system that lets the Factory know when someone opens the hood, sits in the car, or starts the engine! Yeah, that would work, but installing it would void the certification...... Better yet, the factory could just charge to have a former Factory employee move in with each owner to keep tabs on "their" car, at the owners cost, of course. It solves any retirement program issues that the Factory has!

Known history cars, absolutely not. It is interesting to see that at the last Historic Challenge event, there were seven Maserati's and one Alfa Romeo in the Drum Brake class. It seems fewer and fewer Ferrari's are showing up to illustrate the Ferrari history. I wonder why? And just how does one certify a BBLM?

 

That's a very good question. (BBLM)

 

That's an interesting final comment. What are these reasons? Do tell...

DCN