Classiche Certificate 328's

I have seen at least 2 Classiche threads in the past 6 weeks. Here is one of them:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/555198-classiche-certification-new-rules.html

I recall one of the latest comments in one of the threads was that Ferrari was going to have about 15 centers worldwide for re-certification. My impression is that Ferrari is still developing the details.

 

There will always be a market for that.

But there will also always be a market for the cars not "certified" (for lack of a better word).

I wouldn't pay more for a car with it. I would just look elsewhere. But someone will pay it I'm sure. How much? Who knows

 

There is a really nice 88 328 black/cream with 16k miles around the Cleveland area that is certified.
I believe they are asking somewhere around 119K for it

 

Here MIGHT be your answer:

"The Factory counters by saying that certified cars have an increase of 15 to 20 percent in value, which seems both overtly-generous and optimistic. I’d opine that any increase in value varies by model, with a more substantial increase in the top end of the market."

From a new Classiche thread Rob posted about 10 minutes ago:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4/557532-great-sheehan-classiche-article.html#post145505387

 

Yes, of course it will vary. I expect the core Classiche business plan is to take a healthy % cut of that % increase in value on an annual basis.

 

I bought my Mondial QV almost 3 years ago now. It had a Classique Certification when I bought it.

However, that didn't have any impact on my buying decision. I was more concerned with history (car had an extensive service history), evidence of consistent use, current condition, and finally -- the dealer/broker relationship (they were great -- I'd buy from them again in a heartbeat).

The Classique book is neat, and fun to bring along to shows. However, i don't feel like it adds any value to the car. Maybe on a high dollar car, but on my car, it didn't have any impact at all on my purchase decision.

Plus, if you really think about it, the "certification" is only really good for 1 day (the day of issue). As soon as an owner removes the vehicle from Ferrari's care, any sort of changes can be made. The longer since the cert, the more changes that could have occured. (hence new requirement for yearly re-certifications).

As I said, it's a neat thing to have, especially the grill tag, and the duplicate VIN tag. But, I don't think I'd ever spend the cash to do it, should I purchase another car.

Sid

 

Ferrari certified my 308 at the factory and even riveted the certification (a metal plate) in the driver's door jamb. They even assigned it a special odd numbered chassis number - #50045 - and stamped the number on the metal plate.

It's cool.

 

Classiche isn’t perfect but I’m a fan. My 328 GTB got it’s certification this past summer and I just submitted my 355 application. My personal motivation has nothing to do with increasing the monitory value of my cars because I’m not looking to sell. Rather, I was looking to add to their provenance and add factory verification to its originality. I have every intention of maintaining my cars at their Classiche level.

 

As stated by several folks above, Classiche is only good the day your application is complete. Since this thread was started over a year ago, I have seen a number of Classiche certed 308 cars for sale that are absolutely, positively modified or missing correct components at the time the for sale adverts were put together. To me, it's pointless as a selling point. Either I can do a better job at spotting the issues than Classiche, or people get these certs with borrowed parts just to get the cert to fool people into thinking the car they are purchasing is some kind of factory approved vehicle. I had a guy ask me to borrow one of my spare fuel filter housings and fuel pumps so he could go pass Classiche....guess what I said...

 

+1

 

I’m sure this sort of thing has happened. I’ve heard similar stories on here before, though I’m personally not aware of any of them. Yes, you’re correct about Classiche being worthless if owners fail to maintain their cars up to required standards, but that’s a commentary on the owner, not on the integrity of Classiche. I’ve noticed a humorous pattern from Classiche critics - on the one hand they’re inconsolable at the idea that Ferrari requires cars to be annnualky inspected to maintain certification yet, on the other hand, they scoff at its integrity because some owners don’t do as they are supposed to do to maintain their cars as required. Another common gripe I hear from Classiche haters is that it’s too rigid. I’ve heard some whine about their cars not qualifying because their exhaust is a mod or their steering wheel is an aftermarket piece, etc. it’s ridiculous. If one receives Classiche certification then it should be required to verifiably maintain that certification standard or lose it. As one who owns a certified car, I’m proud of that distinction and I have no problem at all having it inspected annually.

I’ve stated before on other threads that the biggest flaw of Classiche certification is that it isn’t rigid enough. It isn’t for everyone nor should it be. It should only be for cars that are maintained at the highest standard and only in their original factory configuration, regardless if there are better “mods” available today. There’s nothing wrong with people modifying their cars if that’s how they prefer to enjoy them. Everyone should enjoy their cars however they choose, but they shouldn’t cry about it not being a Classiche candidate.

 

One result of the Classiche BS I saw, was that the great 'Ferrari Historic Challenge' slowly disappeared.
It was part of several Ferrari events called 'Racing Days' over here and not all owners, who took part in the late 90s and early 2000s weren't willing to fulfill the requirement by Ferrari, that a Classiche certificate was suddenly mandatory for taking part in this great classic Ferrari race series.
And I do not talk about 308 cars, but vintage race gear from the 50s, 60s and 70s like 512S, 512 BBLM, 330, Gr.4 Daytonas, GTO, Formula 1 like 312, 312B/T, and so on.
So many owners of the most valuable race Ferraris said Good-bye and concentrated on other events.
Since a few years I do not visit the 'Ferrari Racing Days' any more, since there's almost exclusively modern stuff to see. Boring.

But good to see, that even many owners of highprized vintage stuff weren't willing to allow this ripoff.

Talking about the initial question regarding sale value. I see, that in ads there are higher prices asked for cars with a Classiche certificate. One can ask any price. But noone tells us the actual price, which was really paid in the end.

Best from Germany
Martin

 

Believe it or not, I think Classiche is a cool idea and I have no criticism for it as a refelection of ones own car as a matter of pride in reaffirming what you have as an owner. However, it means nothing, to me, as a selling point...zero... It is still up to me to verify everything is the way I want want it when I buy a car.

 

I agree with this. It’s just another thing to add pleasure to the ownership experience, if that’s what one chooses.

 

Another issue I do have with Classiche certification is related to some, not all, vintage cars, particularly those with racing heritage. I think Classiche would be very well served by developing an outside advisory council of historians, enthusiasts, owners and restorers of those cars who can impart a significant amount of knowledge on their provenance, many of whom know much more about these cars than the factory does. I also think this would go a long way to establishing a greater amount of credibility with the vintage class given that a portion of them are very suspect about Classiche.

 

My car has a better cooling system, ignition system, and brakes than any 308QV that will ever get the Classiche designation.

To some buyers, these improved components add value. To other buyers, they subtract value. The same sort of value applies to a Classiche car. If you're the owner, you may feel it's worth an extra 40%. Some buyers will agree, some will not.

Personally, I place far more importance on the particulars of an individual car than a Certificate of Authenticity.

 

That some Classiche cars are not driven is part of a larger "problem". They could be driven and some Classiche cars are. And, I doubt any owner of a Classiche class car thinks there is any problem at all.

As for Ferrari Corporate events, I completely understand that Classiche provides them their quality assurance that the cars that will participate are the way they were when they were built. I got an email from the Ferrari Club of America saying that Ferrari Corp was looking for cars to display at Casa Ferrari associated with the Pebble Beach Concours. Non-Classiche cars need not apply.

Generally, it is sad what is happening. There are more and more replica cars being run at the Motorsports Reunion during Monterey car week. I haven't seen a 250 GTO racing at the track for a few years.

I am lucky to have met Rossocorsa1 this summer where both of our cars had been invited for exhibition at The Quail Motorsports Gathering in Monterey. His car is Classiche; mine isn't. I drove my car there; he didn't. But who had more fun there?; he may win. His passion and excitement for his car are remarkable. He sure looks like he is having fun.

 

Brian - the pleasure was mine. I doubt very much I enjoy my car more than you enjoy yours. You have a great car and tremendous passion for the brand. Oh, and it would have been a long drive to Pebble Beach from Maryland.

 

I’d advise waiting to see what happens when they are done with their new game plan.

Classiche is undergoing a major restructure to try and resolve some of the current issues and to set it up as a new recurring revenue stream.

I think it’s worth it on the high value cars but for the lower range I’d recommend just entering it in Cavallino or another respected concours. An earned Platinum there would be a better enhancement in value than the red book IMO.

Dont let the Pebble invite influence you. That has become a “sponsored” pony show. A large donation check goes a long way.

 

That would be o.k, if the 'Historic Challenge' would have survived introduction of the certification enforcement, but it didn't.

Best from Germany
Martin

 

I’ve never been asked if my cars are Classiche certified to participate in any FCA events. Having said that, if Ferrari stages and organizes their own events it doesn’t surprise me that they want Classiche cars only to participate. Seems perfectly reasonable.

 

I don't know, whether it's reasonable, when a former great event dies, because Classiche certification got mandatory. Kudos to the owners of these great cars, who did resist and concentrated on other, non-Ferrari-organized events.



As a regular visitor I have the impression, that since the Ferrari-Maserati Historic Challenge doesn't exist any more I see again more vintage Ferraris at the cross country french Tour Auto (formerly Tour de France Automobile)

Best from Germany
Martin