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Classiche Certificate 328's

Discussion in '308/328' started by Patek, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. Hannibal308

    Hannibal308 F1 Rookie
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    Classiche is resisted, in my case, as I have seen even Classiche make mistakes, or overlook things that I would consider important. I am no expert, concourse judge, or otherwise, but I have learned a bit about 308s over the past few years. I have seen cars get Classiche with painted engine blocks, heads, and cam covers, after market electronic ignition wires showing, incorrect air cleaner assemblies, aftermarket cooling fans, and aftermarket fuel pumps. In fairness, I also know they have marked off cars with similar errors too. Yet, it leaves me feeling that our community can do the job better than Classiche can. Bottom line is I would love to have it for me on my cars, if they were perfect, which they are not, but I don't trust it on other cars. Even if Classiche says they are perfect at that moment, they may very well not be.
     
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  2. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

    May 14, 2017
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    I totally agree with you. As I’ve said before, my biggest gripe with Classiche certification is that it isn’t rigid enough. I would much prefer it was reserved for only the most correct examples, but I suppose there wouldn’t be enough money in it for them. Still, I have it for my cars because I know that they are as they should be and I enjoy having the red book. It is still worth pointing out that it now seems much more commonplace for many of the significant cars, vintage and otherwise, to have Classiche certification. I specifically have noticed this while attending Pebble Beach the past two years.
     
  3. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie
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    OMG. This is exactly the elitist attitude which scares young blood off the classic car scene over here and why there are more and more just old, soon dying grandpas, who tell the interested kids, that their bolts and nuts on their cars are not correct.
    In most of the cases over here they wear Mercedes or Porsche basecaps, or cheap red Ferrari shirts.
    Beware of these folks. Otherwise classic cars will sooner or later disappear in air-conditioned collector's garages. Historically correct, but no more seen on the roads.

    BTW. I second Barry's question from post #44.

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
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  4. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Certifying race cars is asinine. By definition, there is no such thing as an original race car. As one who used to enjoy watching the historic races, more the the new Challenge cars, this really pisses me off.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  5. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    BTW, the second sentence should be, "more THAN the new Challenge cars.."
     
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  6. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
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    Just to jump in and back out again...

    I think this post encompasses one of the hurdles Classiche has.... an clear understanding of exactly WHAT is being inspected as part of the process.

    I can tell you that as of today, there is no where in the application does it require that the color of the block be what it was from the factory, just that it is original to the car. ( I attached the criteria straight out of the book )

    Some thing must be correct, other things do not have to be... read into it as you will.

    S
     

    Attached Files:

  7. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
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    I am interested in reading the verbage as well.

    Not because I do not believe you, I do not know enough about it to have a strong opinion ( yet .. lol ) but could it be possible that the event organizers needed a scapegoat and blamed it on Classiche requirements to cover the real reason the event failed?

    If you want to link to the articles, I want to learn more about what was once before an enticing event!

    S
     
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  8. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

    May 14, 2017
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    You are correct. Many seem to confuse Classiche with concours judging. Classiche is focused on original specification componants, not condition, paint color, etc. They want to know that your numbers match, your exhaust system is correct, your steering wheel isn’t a mod, etc. Thanks for posting this.
     
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  9. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

    May 14, 2017
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    I’d like to learn more as well. I plan to spend some time this weekend digging around online.
     
  10. blkdiablo33

    blkdiablo33 Formula 3

    Jul 12, 2004
    2,248
    bought a sight unseen classiche cert ferrari with lots of records and love the red book and was very happy with the results its an added bonus that comes with the classic ferrari imo if u can see and touch the car prior to sale would recomend it
     
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  11. blkdiablo33

    blkdiablo33 Formula 3

    Jul 12, 2004
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    when doing a cert car gets freshen up also lots of cash goes into most of them getting cert and not all get it
     
  12. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie
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    No paperwork ever would convince me buying a car unseen without a PPI and a thorough test drive.

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
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  13. blkdiablo33

    blkdiablo33 Formula 3

    Jul 12, 2004
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    i did it a few xs got lucky would not recomend it
     
  14. BarryK

    BarryK Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2016
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    Having revived an year and a half old thread here while having started up in the last six months at least three separate threads on the theme of "isn't Classiche wonderful"

    www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/145690644

    www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/146332952

    www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/146103795

    and dismissing any criticism of Classiche as coming from a "vocal very few" doesn't obviously sound like someone who is here with an open mind and to learn.

    Regardless, I will post scans of the articles (i could not find links) provided the posting copyrighted material is allowed by the mods who I will check with first.

    We get that you love Classiche, and for your cars. But rather than constantly keep restating it across different threads, it may be better to understand that there is a diversity of opinions from experts and enthusiasts, and move on.
     
  15. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie
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    That was very interesting Barry. Thanks! Missed the other declaration of love threads.
    No more need for wasting time.

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
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  16. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I can do that for free in 10 minutes and all I need is a flashlight
     
  17. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #67 Texas Forever, Dec 7, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
    I can't say because I took a break from Ferraris during those days. But Dave Sibert ran the US series, and he was a stickler for only allowing cars that had providence as Ferrari race cars, meaning either Ferrari or Michelotto. He would not allow a converted street car to run. He also did not allow replicas. I dunno what happened. He and Steve Earle got pushed out of the picture around the same time. Maybe somebody here knows more about what happened. It's a real shame. It was a hoot seeing owners really race these cars instead of taking parade laps.
     
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  18. GatorFL

    GatorFL Moderator
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    Nov 18, 2005
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    Does this mean we will see his next Classiche thread around June, 2019? :D
     
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  19. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

    May 14, 2017
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    I didn’t start this thread, I merely commented on it. I’ve often addressed what I feel are Classiche’s shortcomings, from their restoration standards to the criteria for certification. Why you feel the need to ridicule is unfortunate. I may not agree with certain people on this or other threads but then again, exchanging opinions and information is the point of this forum. Either way, there’s nothing wrong with differing views. It is interesting, however, that the very same people that are so irritated with the topic and tell me to “move on” are the same that are consistently posting about the same topic. If it bothers you so much, by all means, take your own advice and move on.

    If I had a great vintage car that needed restoration, I wouldn’t take it to Classiche. Rather, I would have one of the top US based restoration houses do the work. As for certification, I’m a fan of it but I think it can be vastly improved (which I’ve defined many times before). Happy to have a respectful exchange of thoughts. If you can’t accomplish that it would be great if you go blow off your steam elsewhere.
     
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  20. GatorFL

    GatorFL Moderator
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    The thread was dead and buried, over a year old and you found it and commented on it. You were obviously looking for another way to comment on the Classiche program. What is funny is that you are trying to defend your position as a Classiche fanboi. We're on to you ;)
     
  21. gbutler

    gbutler Formula Junior
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    Here is my opinion on the whole Classiche issue --- and once again, it's MY opinion and how I feel about it - others can criticize it all they want!

    If I see a newer, run of the mill production based (ie garden variety 308 / 328 / 355 / etc) car that has been certified - my antenna goes up as in - am I dealing with some "gold chain" Ferrari owner that doesn't know the cars and has to go pay Ferrari thousands of dollars for them to tell him his car is original! My feeling is too many owners use this program as a crutch for their own lack of knowledge on how these cars were delivered new from the factory. I would much rather deal with an owner that has the personal knowledge and can argue specific points on why his car is in the as delivered when new state from the factory rather than some owner that is clueless and just points to his fancy red book and says - "The factory certified it - so it must be correct". Point is, in my opinion a real enthusiast is going to put the time into learning about these cars and not rely on some fancy corporate program to put their stamp or blessing on the car.

    And for all you naysayers that will disagree with me - so be it, it's my opinion and your right to disagree --- but I have paid for Classiche certification on my 512 BBi so I know the program. However, I went ahead with Classiche on the BBi (even though it's a newer car) because with this specific model I thought that it was worth it since most of these cars were grey market imports and have been modified to a certain extent to meet US EPA / DOT standards. Classiche certification gives a prospective buyer some comfort in the fact that the car is back to or at least reasonably close to the state it was when it was built at the factory. I felt this was important with Boxers since so many of them are in some "in between" state from being converted to US spec. For a US spec, production based Ferrari built from the 70's and up, I just see no need for it!
     
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  22. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

    May 14, 2017
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    Though we agree on some things and not on others, what I really appreciate is your respectful opinion rather than the silliness that a few on here exhibit.
     
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  23. Brian A

    Brian A Formula 3

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    We're all fanboys in one form or another. I can be accused of being very partisan toward fuel injection and red paint. Leave me alone.

    Why tell someone their opinion is wrong?

    My opinion is that Classiche is of negligible value to certifying a mass produced car like a 308, but I sure would love the nice red book. It is another way of enjoying the car. Obviously some people enjoy the Classiche process and feel like the red book is worth the money. Good for them.

    My opinion is that the claim that the Classiche program has killed vintage racing is unfounded. There are bigger forces at play.
     
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  24. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie
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    Not vintage racing generally, but the corporate Historic Challenge. But meanwhile I don't care anymore. At Le Mans Classic for instance I can watch Porsche 917s competing against Ferrari 512S cars. 330P4 against Ford GT40. And so on. Things, the corporate event could never have offered.

    P.S.: and the food is better in France :)


    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
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  25. Rosey

    Rosey Formula 3

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    I think he is now just baiting you Jeffrey, don't bite !!
     

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