Classiche Query

Don't give them ideas...

Currently any restoration is eligible provided it meets the originality criteria of when it left the factory

 

This may be true for a Dino, but for the more important tipos they may require for you to bring it to the Classiche department in Maranello.

Also, I think they did try to establish a chain of restorers that were to work for them for rates dictated by the factory. I know of one who refused, because those rates were just silly. He does do work for them, but on an independant contractor basis.

 

Is a Classiche certificate really that important? My opinion is that it depends on the individual car. 0384 now that it appears to be legally free and clear might benefit though I emphasize "might". Considering the cost just to own the car, which I believe is still at Ferrari, it probably is worth it. In the case of a street production V6 Dino my approach would be to get a lot of the best advice available from the experts on the subject.There is plenty of this available right here on the F Chat Dino site. Take copious notes and develop a plan. Be sure to get as much detail about the history of the car.Remember many restorations actually cover up issues that should have been dealt with. This project alone could and should take six months or more Then select a highly recommended mechanic/restorer shop to do the necessary. Select one that is near enough to you so regular visits can be made.Finally decide on the desired final result.Do you want a concourse quality resto or a good reliable street driver car. There can be a big $ difference in the job. Get personally involved in the project.You will really enjoy it. tongascrew

 

It depends on the owner, not the car. In short, you as owner provide Ferrari with all the information you have on your car, including pictures, and you pay them for putting that information in a nice red (or white) binder.
Maybe a bit exaggerated but not too far off the truth either.

 

I thought the same thing. I'm the fourth owner of my car, have entire history from all other owners, original car with records-I just didn't see any benefit to pay Classiche 6 K to tell me something I already know?

 

But it isn't even for you..........it's for the next owner.......

 

You may have the car restored where you want.

The Dino would simply have to meet the Classiche requirements in order to be Classische'd

So as long as the OEM bits are in place, the proper materials are used, and you don't simply add " Chairs and Flares " in an attempt to make it something it was not, you will be ok.

We've had several pass through with flying colors, the requirements aren't hard to meet, as say compared to a 250xxx

S

 

Well said.......

 

A Red Book Classiche Attestation would verify what you know already to anyone else and even with the records you have would yield much more than the $6000 outlay in the sale of the car. Just something for you to consider now that you may be selling your 330 GTC.

 

I suppose you are correct. I guess it just seems like a bit of a shakedown for a car with ironclad history. I can completely understand the value of certification for a very old car, a racecar or something else unusual. It is a handsome book,

 

The certification does not look at proper body shapes, rust, rot, ect., so don't expect a car to be correct because it has the red book.

 

bingo. As one who once received a call from a dealership wanting to know about some technical aspects of a customer car that was in for Classiche, I wondered, after I hung up w/ the dealer, exactly how much that customer was being charged for this "certification" which included "calling a guy who might know . . ."

 

True Bryan, but you cannot expect any dealer nor even the factory to know as much as you and the Admiral ( best regards btw) on MDs. Who else apart form studying, compiling etc has restored himself, mean with his own hands!, one such rare beast?

 

I paid around half that money to have my 330GTC certified at Maranello in 2010. I am absolutely convinced it made a difference when I sold it. That wasn't the reason I got the certification, however: for me it was because I enjoyed the certification process, I thought the price was fair (this may have changed, not sure), I loved visiting the Classiche department in Maranello (have been there 5 times), I liked the emotional value the red binder gave me, plus the eligibility for Ferrari events: I wanted to drive the first Mille Miglia Tribute and I'm sure the certification process helped there.

I'm a bit irritated with the notion that seems to prevail among some enthousiasts that there is something deeply wrong with you if you have the car certified. A lot of you spend thousands of dollars on books about Ferrari or on doing up the garage - is that fully sane? We're all a bit insane, it is a cult hobby, let people have their fun and try to minimise the moralising please. I'm just talking about the certification now. We're all entitled to our opinion but the continual slamming of certification gets rather old. And always from the same broken records, I might add.

What I do find objectionable to the Classiche set-up is the way that the local artisans are treated. Classiche does not do restorations itself, lets local artisans do quite a good job on the whole but does not allow them to get the credit or the decent hourly rates. That is something that I do not like at all. However, to me that is a separate discussion from the red binder thing.

A lot of people go on internet hearsay. I found the Classiche department to be most welcoming and enjoyable. With 5 visits there, a higher sale price, a nice binder and pics of me driving the car through that historic gate, I think I got good value for my €2300. YMMV.

Oh - and to answer the OP - my car had been restored in 1992, obviously not by Classiche.

Onno

 

Exactly. And in most cases they have nobody to call. And it really shows.

Every time I see a Classiche binder my first concern is what changes were made before (and after) that binder was issued and are these changes "right" or "wrong". Reversible or irreversible? So for me the binder is not a plus, it is a warning of yet another event in the past that might have compromised originality. For me it is crazy that some people pay serious money for that!

A plastic diamond may come with a fancy certificate of authenticity...

 

Well certification of a preserved road car might be superfluous ( but cheaper than buying replica paperwork and books, not talking of tools,,,) so everyone has a choice. But more important is that when the factory refuses to certify, and all those who are in special cars are aware of such cases, some of them circulating on Fchat, then you know you have a potential problem. So it is not as stupid as it seem,,,and personally I have all my cars certified, either buying certified cars or having the car certified after I buy and yes I think it is worth it, including but not limited to the fact that this is a nice gesture for people ( FC) who are usually very helpful when we need them.

 

Classiche didn't touch my car, they just took all the numbers down, verified them, photographed it, put it in a nice binder to confirm that the car was as it should be. To suggest a red binder is a warning is just silly, the far majority (I would say over 90% but that is just a guess) are NOT restorations, just fact checking.

I think Ferrari overcharge for their restorations, and sometimes there are (occasionally serious) mistakes made during the restoration process concerning originality. But I have seen similar mistakes made by very, very big names in the Ferrari world. Names that do NOT get flamed around here. So the brush is certainly too broad.


Onno

 

How does the Classiche booklet provide any sort of guarantee that the car hasn't been changed after issuance?

Obviously, it doesn't. It is a statement of originality at a single point in time and whatever happens to the car afterward is up to the potential buyer to discover if any sort of price premium is being asked for the Classiche status.

 

thank you, but I wish it had been about a 500 Mondial; it was a question re: the specs of US smog equipment on a Queen Mother.

On the other hand, I can see why a "certification" would be desired by a certain set of vintage Ferrari buyers. My fear is that this "certification" is a pernicious phenomena, and that the day will come where only cars with nice red binders will be allowed to show or run at FCA-sponsored events. My European friends can correct me, but hasn't a version of this already happened in Europe?

 

Kare i totally agree, the whole process is crazy, its a mugs game.

I have spent a huge amount of time in specialist Ferrari garages, and official Ferrari dealer garages - talking to the mechanics - they laugh at the process, they spend hours swapping parts from one car to another prior to the Classiche inspector arriving for his 4 hour time slot, then they spend hours swapping the parts back to the cars they came off - the majority of the time without the majority of the owners even being slightly aware that their pride and joy has been used as a mule.
The owner of the car requesting Classiche is aware, because he has been promised his car will magically get a Red Book, even though the pictures of suspension, engine bay etc may be slightly different from the reality he possesses, they don't care - they have the book, they think it gives them a gold guilted car to sell or show around. The owners of the garage don't care, its free money. Ferrari don't car its free money. The Classiche inspectors don't care because it keep them on a nice steady earner.

The whole process is the emperors new clothes!

Rather than spend your money on a Classiche, employ the services of the likes of Marcel and get some real value for your money, get a feel for the real history of your car.

Or just be so bold as to do a full expose of your car on FChat - personally i will take my restoration thread over a Red Book any day!

cheers
Mark

 

I didn't think it was possible, but the situation is worse than I thought!!

Agree fully, and love your thread!

 

Any Ferrari Main Dealership who knows this is going on at their Dealership and condones/takes part in the above practices should be stripped of their status, as should any Classiche Inspector who knowingly awards Classiche certificates/books to a car that has 'temporary' parts it in just for the inspection.

 

Steve i totally agree. But lets get down to basics here and face reality, we are dealing with the motor trade, not exactly an industry that has built its reputation on scruples, morality, honesty and disclosure.

Also as mentioned earlier, the Classiche process is only a snap shot of time during the inspection process of a few hours - before and after do not come into the equation.