Of course but the info isn't on the build sheets with the rest of the car's info. I don't understand why there isn't a blank line to fill in on the form for this information, but there isn't for some reason.
I have no doubt the info is on record somewhere with Ferrari however I was surprised to find that it wasn't in the folder that was assigned to the car when it was built. I visited the Classiche department twice over the past two years and spent nearly an hour going thru the folders of three examples, one from each model type - 21277 (carbed), 35455 (2Vi) and 50045 (QV - mine). The folder was a pre-printed form that was filled in by hand or with a check mark with the necessary information on each car. Everything you you think is there to be checked off - except for the engine and transmission info. No place for either and it is not written in somewhere else. Anything else you want to know including the color of the interior/exterior with the associated numbers for those, any of the few options and even a list of the other models it was put with on the plane or boat. But no engine or transmission numbers and I was looking specifically for this since I was holding the build sheet for my car. So as I have said before, Ferrari has it somewhere, but it isn't in the folder you think it should be in or the shelf you think it would be on.
Like the other man said, to each his own, I agree. For me, it was so important to see that my 328 lacked for nothing, first mechanically, and second, in the looks and audio system department. Next, I will start with the seats, and the rest of the interior.My car will be better than when it came out of the factory, its that simple. It actually is already, and Im not done yet . G
Cool. Thanks for that info. Given the above, I think my assertion that the Book provides factory confirmation of “no engine swap” is valid. And since they record the numbers, that confirmation survives expiration of the Classiche status. As I said before, I doubt there are many engine swaps out there, but it is still a nice bit of paperwork to have.
Good points here! My experience with Classiche and som dealers are very confusing. I have been in a process checking my 308 dry sump (76/77) numbers and received inconsistent information from all involved parts. I have also received information from profiled historians that make me think that there are some unhealthy connections out there.
I have a few cars and they all have Classiche certificates but the photographer is always the local dealer. The certificate will still issue even with a mod like my Vetroresina has correct wheels but the car was delivered with the narrower 14s than it has now. Because it is still OEM it passes. Ferrari dealers and resellers will hype the book but I have no idea if it really is worth it. It helps at car shows to add provenance. Also the pictures done by a dealer in London were more extensive and higher quality that pictures that were done on my 328 here. My Classiche books are more than three years old so what is being done today may be different.
At Cavallino, FCA National Concours, and Chatanooga all real, genuine IAC/PFA judged events we pay no attention to any Classiche documentation including the Red Book except possibly to be courteous. Our standards for originality are higher.
I do not judge cars of the vintage where that is an issue. If I did we all have good reason not to trust the veracity of those fine folks in Maranello. I strongly suspect our vintage car judges are similarly inclined. I am aware of none of our well versed judges who place any value on information in the book. Experience has shown it to be a wise position. We try to not be dismissive of it for PR and FR (Ferrari relations) but it is of no interest to us. I was talking about this with a few other interested parties just the other day. Some expect that at Canossa events greater and greater emphasis will be placed on the book but I guess they need to. Every year goes by they have fewer and fewer competent judges. I judged a Supercar at Chattanooga that got platinum at Cavallino since I quit and I eliminated it from that just under the hood and I was being charitable.
I have wanted to be a judge for 25 years. Spoke to Ahlgrim about it a lot back in the day. It never happened
All this talk of original engines or transaxles. Maybe I'm naïve, but what percentage of our underdriven cars NOT have all original drivetrain? It's not like these are 100 thousand mile cars and we're going to junkyards for replacement engines. NOT that many catastrophic things occur to these cars that require swaps. I'm thinking 328's, 308's, Testarossa's. Paying Ferrari 6K for a book, that verifies that your car is original seems pretty outlandish. A car that's getting engine swaps probably has so many other problems, it's not a candidate to enter into a concourse or get the Classiche
At the regular folk car shows that I frequent people like to see the Redbook but then I like people with lower standards. I thought about going to some of those high standards shows but it seemed like no fun.
Sorry to disagree. For some of the earlier 1950s cars there are simply zero records about engine (internal block) numbers (at Maranello). And no, also not kept at FNA. Marcel Massini
I was referring to the more modern cars like the one owned by the poster I was replying to. I am aware if you go very far back records get very scarce. Sorry for the confusion. Little wonder FNA has no records for the years before they existed or even cars they did not import.
So do you see a LOT of replacement engines in 1980's, 1990's cars? I have to assume it's relatively rare. What kind of catastrophic event would have to occur to force a hunt for a used engine? Considering the labor involved in doing an engine swap, really getting an unknown unit, swapping all of the auxiliary components, I would think it's much more prudent to fix your original engine or transaxle. For the price of a used engine, a person can buy a LOT of new engine replacement parts, and have money left over to pay for the additional labor. I have an 85,000 mile 328 that had a turbo installed, run hard, put away wet. Broke 6 out of the eight pistons, had a couple of holes drilled into the block casting for oil lines for the turbo, and I still used the original block and trans. New pistons, new liners. I DID buy a complete used 89 engine and transaxle complete that I just have on a shelf- just in case.
