Classified Bordeaux's | FerrariChat

Classified Bordeaux's

Discussion in 'Drink, Smoke, and Fine Dining' started by rob lay, Jan 8, 2009.

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  1. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    First Growths (Premiers or 1er Crus)
    Château Lafite Rothschild, Commune de Pauillac, Haut-Médoc (archaically Château de la Fite, Laffite, Lafitte)
    Château Latour, Commune de Pauillac, Haut-Médoc (archaically La Tour de Segur)
    Château Margaux, Commune de Margaux (archaically Château Margau)
    Château Haut-Brion, Commune de Pessac, Graves (archaically Château Hautbrion, Houtbrion, Ho-Bryan, Obryan, Ho Bryen)
    Château Mouton Rothschild, Commune de Pauillac, Haut-Médoc (reclassified from Second Growth status in 1973) (archaically Château Branne-Mouton)

    Second Growths (officially Seconds Crus, sometimes written as Deuxièmes Crus)
    Château Rauzan-Ségla, Margaux
    Château Rauzan-Gassies, Margaux
    Château Léoville-Las Cases, St.-Julien
    Château Léoville-Poyferré, St.-Julien
    Château Léoville Barton, St.-Julien
    Château Durfort-Vivens, Margaux
    Château Gruaud-Larose, St.-Julien
    Château Lascombes, Margaux
    Château Brane-Cantenac, Cantenac-Margaux (Margaux)
    Château Pichon Longueville Baron, Pauillac (commonly known as Pichon Baron)
    Château Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande, Pauillac (commonly known as Pichon Lalande or Pichon Comtesse)
    Château Ducru-Beaucaillou, St.-Julien
    Château Cos d'Estournel, St.-Estèphe
    Château Montrose, St.-Estèphe

    Third Growths (Troisièmes Crus)
    Château Kirwan, Cantenac-Margaux (Margaux)
    Château d'Issan, Cantenac-Margaux (Margaux)
    Château Lagrange, St.-Julien
    Château Langoa Barton, St.-Julien
    Château Giscours, Labarde-Margaux (Margaux)
    Château Malescot St. Exupéry, Margaux
    Château Cantenac-Brown, Cantenac-Margaux (Margaux)
    Château Boyd-Cantenac, Margaux
    Château Palmer, Cantenac-Margaux (Margaux)
    Château La Lagune, Ludon (Haut-Medoc)
    Château Desmirail, Margaux
    Château Calon-Ségur, St.-Estèphe
    Château Ferrière, Margaux
    Château Marquis d'Alesme Becker, Margaux

    Fourth Growths (Quatrièmes Crus)
    Château Saint-Pierre, St.-Julien (archaically Serançan, divided as Saint-Pierre-Bontemps and Saint-Pierre-Sevaistre)
    Château Talbot, St.-Julien
    Château Branaire-Ducru, St.-Julien
    Château Duhart-Milon-Rothschild, Pauillac
    Château Pouget, Cantenac-Margaux (Margaux)
    Château La Tour Carnet, St.-Laurent (Haut-Médoc)
    Château Lafon-Rochet, St.-Estèphe
    Château Beychevelle, St.-Julien
    Château Prieuré-Lichine, Cantenac-Margaux (Margaux) (archaically Château La Prieuré, Prieuré-Cantenac)
    Château Marquis de Terme, Margaux

    Fifth Growths (Cinquièmes Crus)
    Château Pontet-Canet, Pauillac
    Château Batailley, Pauillac
    Château Haut-Batailley, Pauillac
    Château Haut-Bages-Libéral, Pauillac
    Château Grand-Puy-Lacoste, Pauillac
    Château Grand-Puy-Ducasse, Pauillac
    Château Lynch-Bages, Pauillac
    Château Lynch-Moussas, Pauillac
    Château Dauzac, Labarde (Margaux)
    Château d'Armailhac, Pauillac (archaically Château Mouton-d'Armailhacq, Mouton-du-Baron Philippe)
    Château du Tertre, Arsac (Margaux)
    Château Pédesclaux, Pauillac
    Château Belgrave, St.-Laurent (Haut-Médoc)
    Château de Camensac, St.-Laurent (Haut-Médoc)
    Château Cos Labory, St.-Estèphe
    Château Clerc-Milon, Pauillac
    Château Croizet Bages, Pauillac
    Château Cantemerle, Macau (Haut-Médoc) (added in 1856)
     
  2. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Since Mia was born in November 2006 I've stopped by the local wine store now and then asking when I could buy a case of 2006 Bordeaux. This week they told me it would only be a few more months before they are available. Wine Spectator and others have already ranked them and it appears to be another good year. They said 2005 was the best year in decades and prices were high 3 and even into the 4 digits for 1st Growths. Although some have started to rate 2006 in the 95+ range they think prices will remain below 2005 as that year was so hot that futures demand has been lighter for 2006. They are still looking at prices in the mid 3 digits though.

    I know there are some lower classified growths that are as good or better than first growths, but I really want to get something special Mia can enjoy the rest of her life. I would like to keep the per bottle below $200, so that might eliminate first growths anyway. I know liquor stores are selling more, but I think this recession would bring prices of fine wines down?

    I would like to support our local wine store, but for buying a case of fine Bordeaux can I save a significant amount buying elsewhere?

    I'm not that knowledgeable, advice on which wines to consider, how much to pay, and where to buy would be appreciated.

    Thanks!
    rob
     
  3. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Rob,

    You can use www.wine-searcher.com to check prices across the markets. There is likely to be a wide range on the prices as the classified growths do not always come through single distribution channels.

    Probably more than you want to study but left bank and right bank are regularly broken apart for vintage comparisions. The sides are also part of the difference between the amount of cabernet versus merlot.

    Not on your list but every bit in the same first growth category, if not even held in higher esteem, are Le Pin and Petrus. Probably far beyond the level of pain you are willing to endure.

    An alternative would be to go for Chateau d'Yquem. It will age over very long times. Available in half bottles so the cost would stay in range.

    For source material to determine what Bordeaux might be over achievers and under performers look for Robert Parker's Wine Advocate and even Wine Spectator. Read the description and not just the scores. Since you are doing this as a commemorative for the birth you need to be especially concerned for the maturity in 20+ years.

    Jeff
     
  4. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove FChat Assassin
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    Was there a question or a comment in all that?






     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    hey smart ass :) first post documented the Classified Bourdeaux's as I didn't want my question to dominate the thread, I wanted it to be about everything Classified Bourdeaux. my question was post #2. I'm deducting 1000 posts for your question. :D;):D
     
  6. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
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    #6 dan360, Jan 9, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2009
    Hey Rob - is your intent to celebrate to keep to drink or to be a gift to her once she turns 21?

    The think to do used to be to buy En-primeur - which is literally a wine future, good wine merchants can arrange that kind of thing for you. However since the 2000 vintage there hasn't really been a saving - that may of course change with this economy!

    Have you drunk any of the 1st growths? One positive side effect of the challenge series has been a number of (expensive!) dinners that featured many of the wines on this list, including one dinner where we had two different vintages of Haut-Brion :) They are all interesting wines, but with the cost of them you need to be ready to store them properly so they don't spoil, especially if you plan to keep for 20 years.

    I'm a fan of Pichon Lalande which you should be able to buy in the 60-80$ a bottle range, my current favorite of bordeaux style is actually a tuscan wine - Ornellaia, fabulous stuff at about 175$ a bottle.

    I would recommend trying a few of these :)
     
  7. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Only 1st growth I've had is Mouton Rothschild, that was only one I could afford. :) I think I have some 2nd and 3rd growths in my collection now, but don't remember which ones.

    The idea was to buy her a case, share a bottle when she's 18 (if she drinks) and then give her the rest when 21. Recommendation will be to let me store if she doesn't have proper storage and then she can share a bottle on special occasions rest of her life. It would be hers to do with what she wants, but I think it would be cool if she still had a bottle around at 50, 80, or even a 100 to drink.

    Storage might be an issue, we have a 25 bottle cooler or so for some of our more valuable wines plus a "drinking" shelf. We have another cabinet where wines are stored at room temp (66-68 in winter and 70-74 in summer) horizontal. I just don't have anywhere for a good wine room. Only option might be a larger wine cooler.

    Now I think about it, think I could talk FChat'ers jimpo1 or B.Ratcliff to let me borrow space in their wine room for 18 years. :) Here's $2,500 in wine, don't drink it! :D
     
  8. cptdpt

    cptdpt Rookie

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Not on your list of Premiere Gran Cru but should be is Pavie. Excellent year to year. No doubt the 2006 will be another wine-of-the-vintage contender. I haven't seen prices vary much from store to store (or auction), but occasionally Buckley offers a deal on new vintages. Cheers!

    ::JK::
    www.winecomplements.net
     
  9. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    For my own ref, here are the price ranges I'm seeing on wine-searcher.com today for 2006's...

    First Growths (Premiers or 1er Crus)
    $530-645 - Château Lafite Rothschild, Commune de Pauillac, Haut-Médoc (archaically Château de la Fite, Laffite, Lafitte)
    $549-950 - Château Latour, Commune de Pauillac, Haut-Médoc (archaically La Tour de Segur)
    $550-950 - Château Margaux, Commune de Margaux (archaically Château Margau)
    $495-810 - Château Haut-Brion, Commune de Pessac, Graves (archaically Château Hautbrion, Houtbrion, Ho-Bryan, Obryan, Ho Bryen)
    $630-1065 - Château Mouton Rothschild, Commune de Pauillac, Haut-Médoc (reclassified from Second Growth status in 1973) (archaically Château Branne-Mouton)

    $2,500 - Pin Pomerol Bordeaux France
    $1,750 - Petrus Pomerol Bordeaux France
    $559-739 - Yquem Sauterne Barsac Bordeaux France
    $109-190 - Pichon Longueville Comtesse Lalande Pauillac Bordeaux France
    $260-400 - Pavie St Emilion Bordeaux France
     
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I like that wine-searcher site, so looked up a few bottles in the cooler now...

    $55 - 1996 Tertre Margaux Bordeaux France
    $80 - 1996 Duhart Milon Pauillac Bordeaux France
    $62-164 - 1996 Pontet Canet Pauillac Bordeaux France
    $63 - 1993 La Fleur Petrus Rouge Pomerol Bordeaux France
    $125-270 - 1995 Cos Estournel St Estephe Bordeaux France
     
  11. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    A habitual overachiever is Lynch Bages. A fifth growth that should not still be classified that low.

    Pavie has been controversial because they are noted for making a bit more in the new world style.

    At the prices you give for the d'Yquem those should be 750s. Check for 375s as they will be substantially less. It is tough to drink a whole 750 of d'Yquem as it is best for appetizers or desert.

    Chateau Margaux is really nice and mostly/all merlot. We've still got a 1983 in the cellar.

    Dan360 has a good point about looking beyond France. Sassacia, Ornellia and the Gaja wines, all from Italy, are superb.

    We are doing a big tasting in St. Louis on the 24th and 25th where some great wines from around the world are being poured.

    Jeff
     
  12. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    I like wine and not to be a snob, but Bordeaux are for show... the realy good wines and expensive are in burgandy.... I would reccomend a case of chambertin clos de Bez from Labour Roi et fils... might be $1500 to $2k for 1997 or a bit more for 1995.... you can keep the wine for ever, and it ACTUALLY gets better... with modern bordeaux they are designed to be consumed within the first 5- 10 years of production and trail off. since they stopped using sulfites as a preservative they just dont last as long.

    that being said a 1982 0r 85 Laffite is a thing of beauty!!!

    if you are going to buy a birth year, you could always buy a pipe of port from Qinto do Noval.... they will store and ship as you need... that is a very classic first born wine thing to do

    Yquen is fantasitc, but for the money not really worth it unless you realy like sweet wine... you can keep Yquem for a long time, but its an acquired thing. ... I love it... had a 1967 ( my birth year ) for new years two years ago with Foie Gras ...yummmeeee!!!!!!!!!!
     
  13. martyb

    martyb Formula Junior

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    Rob,

    05 prices are dropping. Wine Exchange in Orange is a good source.. Good prices and service......

    I would go 05... jmo
     
  14. martyb

    martyb Formula Junior

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    Oops sorry I missed the birth year!!
     
  15. moriaan1

    moriaan1 Formula 3

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    Rob,
    Having visited the Bordeaux several times, and most grandcru Chateaux.
    I hope she learns to appreciate the wine you appreciate.

    Would be kind of disapointing in time when she doesn't like a Bordeaux

    Personally, I prefer several lower cru's The grandcrus are to commercial!

    Best experience in the Bordeaux?
    November, 1990 a cru bourgeois estate. We had roasted beef from a fire from wood of the trimmed vineyard, in the attic of a 200 year old barn with the smell of fermenting wine coming from open brickstone tanks below. A few glassed of the wine of the house made it feel like Heaven!
    Experiences like this make you appreciate wine more than just drinking it.. talking with the patron about his passion is priceless, its better than taking a guided tour at Mouton Rothschild!

    For the price of 2 cases grandcrus, you can present her a trip into the culture of wine for her 18th birthday, and that is something she will probably never forget!

    Its about the wine, and enjoying it, not the name on the bottle...
     
  16. sailquik

    sailquik Formula 3

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    If I'm following the jist, you want to lay down a bottle for the birth year of your daughter?

    I'd suggest a single bottle of D'Yquem for a girl: The romantic aspect is that it is sweet like a little girl and the practical is that at 21 years of age (assuming that is the event you open it for), your daughter will actually like it, as opposed to a fine Bordeaux, which may not be as enjoyable to the younger female palate.

    For a boy, any from your list of first growths would be outstanding. Me: I'd do Cheval Blanc, from St. Emilion. Since you will be opening this with a 21 year old man, you can have something less delicate, but it won't go as far, so you either have to drink a celebratory bottle alone with your son before the celebration or lay down a case, which could get pricey. I'd go with the former, drink it with him alone, or include Mom as well. Either way, the moment will be more special and memorable than with a larger group.

    I don't think you mentioned St. Emilion in your original post, so here they are categorized:

    St Emilion

    1er Grand Cru Classé A:
    Ch. Ausone
    Ch. Cheval Blanc

    1er Grand Cru Classé B:
    Ch. Angélus
    Ch. Beau-Séjour-Bécot
    Ch. Beauséjour
    Ch. Belair
    Ch. Canon
    Clos Fourtet
    Ch. Figeac
    Ch. La Gaffelière
    Ch. Magdelaine
    Ch. Pavie
    Ch. Trottevieille

    Grand Cru Classé:
    Ch. Bellevue
    Ch. Canon-la-Gaffelière
    Ch. Fonroque
    Ch. Grand Corbin Despagne
    Ch. Grand Mayne
    Ch. Larcis Ducasse
    Ch. Larmande
    Clos de l'Oratoire
    Ch. Pavie-Macquin
    Ch. Troplong-Mondot

    Grand Cru:
    Ch. Faugères
    Ch. La Tour Figeac
    Ch. Rol Valentin
    Ch. Teyssier
     
  17. Pedro

    Pedro Karting

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    Great suggestion!
     
  18. nerd

    nerd F1 Rookie

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    Brilliant, both the suggestion and the wine. The content of my wine refrigerator is 98% reds, but d'Yquem is nectar...and I often describe it as flowers in bottle.

    For whatever reason, 1986 has always been a favorite!

    Rob, best to you and your lucky daughter!
     
  19. robert_c

    robert_c F1 Rookie

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    I don't think you will find any Margaux or Rothschild etc. for under $200. But that is what I recommend. Instead of a case of a lesser wine, I would buy as much 1er Crus that you can afford. Half a case perhaps? I don't trust Jim or Brian with alcohol as far as I could throw them. I'll store the case for you. ;)

    2000 or 2005 should be way better than the '06, but the birth year is a great idea. I had a '66 (birth year) Lafite Rothschild a few years ago for my birthday and it was great, but it would never stand up to a '61 for example. My point is the significance of the birth year out weighs the better vintage.
     
  20. imcarthur

    imcarthur Formula Junior

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    As above, the best time to buy Bordeaux is En Primeur which was in the Spring of 2007 for 2006 vintage. You buy based on the barrel tastings from the wine gurus. Many find that Parker likes big & bold & all of his recommendations are tainted by this. Wine Spectator is also prone to falling into this trap too. They both also tend to be very optimistic in their ‘drink now’ suggestions. Decanter is more traditional.

    Here is a link to Decanter’s barrel tasting report for 2006 Bordeaux:

    http://www.decanter.com/recommendations/recommendation.php?rid=456

    A lot of reading but it might help you choose. Right Bank wines – Pomerol, Saint-Emilion - seem to have fared better than the Left Bank.

    If you must have Left Bank (your first list above – the 1855 classification) some of the best buys are often the second wines from a First Growth – Les Fort de Latour, Carruades de Lafitte-Rothschild, Pavillion Rouge, Clos de Marquis etc. They are made in the same Chateau as the greats but from lesser vines on their property.

    For Bordeaux (or any wine), the big names will always have a decent product. But you will often find wines as good or better if you do some research & buy as an educated buyer.

    Ian
     
  21. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I guess there are futures and stuff, but local wine stores won't even have 2006's available until early summer they said.
     
  22. imcarthur

    imcarthur Formula Junior

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    En Primeur is futures. You buy in the spring following the vintage (while the wine is still in barrels) & take delivery 2 years later. This is how wine merchants buy. The 2006s will be released over the summer.

    Ian
     
  23. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I really don't want it for a single event, more like a case to be spread over a life time.

    I'm not sure how many girls are "delicate" anymore, even bold wines are more delicate than the tequila shots they live through college with. :D

    Mia might be a kart racing, duck killing, flying, cross country running delicate girl though. :)
     
  24. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Logically I bet I could invest $2,500 right now and use that money every milestone to buy a fine bottle of wine on open market and end up ahead. That kinda takes the fun out of it though. Something cool about possessing the wine over time. When I have a milestone birthday I go out on winebid.com and buy a bottle. Maybe 1974 was a poor vintage, but it is always really cheap.
     
  25. imcarthur

    imcarthur Formula Junior

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    True but . . . how was the wine kept? Was it cellared properly all of those years? Was it sitting upright & in the sun on some bozos shelf for 1/2 its life? It's a roll of the dice. When it's in your own cellar (or cooler) you know. But futures can be a bit of a risk too. Wine prices for any given year may rise or fall depending upon how the vintage is perceived over the years. I buy futures just to ensure supply. I don't buy quantity every year, I buy quality.

    Ian
     

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