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Cleaning fuel distributors of a 400 i

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 4, 2010.

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  1. Geert Jan Schreurs

    Geert Jan Schreurs Karting

    Jul 14, 2010
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    Geert Jan Schreurs
    #1 Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Start with read the K Jetronic book so you know how this fine piece of art works. I you don’t feel comfortable with fine mechanical work don’t open it. Be careful with petrol or gasoline. Take the necessary precautions to avoid fire.

    Remove the FD from the car.
    Remove all the gasoline/petrol lines. Remove the fuel distributor from you car by removing the three non torx screws on top. When you take the fuel distributor off you have to be careful that the plunger inside doesn’t fall out. Try to avoid this by holding you hand underneath the fuel distributor when you lift it. Remove the plunger first before you carry the fuel distributor.
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  2. Geert Jan Schreurs

    Geert Jan Schreurs Karting

    Jul 14, 2010
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    Geert Jan Schreurs
    #2 Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Remove the six (torx 25) screws at the bottom and two (torx 25) screws on top. On top there are six Allen screws. Don’t touch the Allen screws inside because they are for the calibration of the fuel flow. For cleaning purpose you don’t have to adjust these screws.

    You can now split the fuel distributor in half. Do not twist the upper and lower half because of the springs inside. By knocking with a (yellow) plastic or rubber hammer on the side and pulling it will split.

    see the result.
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  3. Geert Jan Schreurs

    Geert Jan Schreurs Karting

    Jul 14, 2010
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    Geert Jan Schreurs
    #3 Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Take off the big screw of the Barrel at the bottom. The Barrel can be removed now. Press out the barrel by pressing the lower half down on a wooden table.
    Pull very slowly the gasket off the lower half. This gasket isn’t for sale you have to re-use it! (It normally sticks to the lower half)
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  4. Geert Jan Schreurs

    Geert Jan Schreurs Karting

    Jul 14, 2010
    54
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    Geert Jan Schreurs
    #4 Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You can remove all the o rings and metal cups from the barrel. After removing the metal cups you can remove the metal rings which holds the fuel filter in place. Remove the filter by sliding it over the plunger house. Remove the other o rings. You can replace all the o rings by viton or NBR 70 shore O rings. (I have some of them on stock. Send an e-mail if you have problems finding these o rings.) The filter and the metal rings and a brown o ring have to be re-used. These parts are not for sale as far as I know.
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  5. Geert Jan Schreurs

    Geert Jan Schreurs Karting

    Jul 14, 2010
    54
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    Geert Jan Schreurs
    #5 Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Clean all the parts in an ultra sonic cleaner. I cleaned the parts in a ultrasonic bath with hand warm water and a little bit of soap in it. Rub dirt gently of by using a electric tooth brush or other brush . Blow air through all the holes.

    There are a few small holes that have to be cleaned see the pictures. Makes sure these holes are clean. Make sure the slits in the barrel are clean.

    In the upper half there are very small fuel filters in the outlets. You can turn them out with a small screwdriver. Make sure that everything is clean before you start assembling..
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  6. Geert Jan Schreurs

    Geert Jan Schreurs Karting

    Jul 14, 2010
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    Geert Jan Schreurs
    #6 Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Rebuild the barrel. Assembling from bottom to the top. First replace the o ring at the bottom. Put the metal ring over the barrel slide the fuel filter in place and lock the filter by the two metal o rings. Put the brown o ring over the barrel. Place back the metal cups don’t push them in completely but push the half in. The opening of the cups points to the bottom and put a new O rings over the cups. Place the upper O ring.

    Place the barrel in the upper half. You have to spray the upper half and barrel with Teflon (PTFE) to slide it in place. Make sure the six o rings stay in place. There is a mark at the bottom of the plunger house. (see the red marks in the pictures). The six openings should match the openings in the upper half. Make sure they match. The mark should point to the middle of a chamber. Please notice the torx holes and the red lines and the mark. In assembled state you can still check the mark lines. To make it slide in completely you have to press the upper half with the barrel on wood until you hear a click. Check once more the mark and the position of the chambers.
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  7. Geert Jan Schreurs

    Geert Jan Schreurs Karting

    Jul 14, 2010
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    Geert Jan Schreurs
    #7 Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    In the bottom of the opening of the plunger house is a very thin hard to see o ring. Replace this o ring first. Put the gasket over the lower half. Make sure that the small hole in the gasket matches the hole in the lower half see picture. The “pit” in the gasket has to fill the chambers in the lower half.

    Lay the metal plates on the gasket and lay the springs on top of the metal plates. Place the lower half on the table spray some Teflon in the opening of the barrel and very careful place the upper half on the lower half. Don’t twist the half’s because of the springs inside.

    Put back the six torx 25 screws in the bottom. Place the big central screw at the bottom and lock it. Check once more if the mark at the bottom is pointing towards a chamber.
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  8. Geert Jan Schreurs

    Geert Jan Schreurs Karting

    Jul 14, 2010
    54
    netherlands
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    Geert Jan Schreurs
    #8 Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Put back in the small fuel filters on top in the six outlets. Place the fuel pressure regulator on the side. The small metal O rings are to adjust the fuel pressure. Adding o rings means higher pressure. Removing O rings will lower the pressure.

    Fit an O ring at the bottom around the barrel. This o ring avoids air leakage. You can now very careful put back in the plunger.

    Now you have to test the fuel distributor. You can test it on the car or use an old stand alone mixture control unit and a fuel pump to test it. I will start a new thread about this later.
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  9. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 ernie, Oct 4, 2010
    Great post!!!!

    What was all the junk clogging up the holes?
     
  10. Geert Jan Schreurs

    Geert Jan Schreurs Karting

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    #10 Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 4, 2010
    No idea. I opened first two old MB FD to practice. They where both full with sand . The ferrari FD had a sort sponge looking dirt in it.
     
  11. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 mwr4440, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2010
    Ernie,

    I am in the middle of one of mine too (308 GTSi FD). I have a spare (a GREAT ebay score) and am practising on it.

    The 308i FD is very similar to the 400i except:

    a) It has NO TORX on the top unlike Geert's 400i example,

    b) You MUST remove the 30mm nut on the underside to get it appart. I understood from Geert you do not have to remove it on the 400i but I may have misunderstood.

    c) There may be other differences I have not run into yet other than the 308i FD has 8 ports instead of 6 on the 400i.



    THAT junk is the mouse piss we call gas. It is the varnish that occurs when gas sits too long and seperates and dries. Some of it is crap that was pumped in from the gas station tanks too and made it past the fuel filters, I am sure.

    My crud was redish like rust, hard like dried sponge or leaves and actually cunched like them. I CAREFULLY used a dental pic to break it up, loosen it and knock it out. The part is soaking in carb cleaner to loosen the rest I dared not scrape to get.

    3 of my ports and several passageways were almost completely clogged. The PO said it worked just fine when he took it off. I am sure he thought so, but reality is a very different thing.

    So far this is actually a pretty simple job (if you are NOT a, "to the knat's a$$ detail" type, I recommend you DO NOT attempt this). You must go SLOW and document every single step. It is a huge PITA to clean it all. Lots of nooks and crannys and parts that MUST be put back together EXACTLY the same way they came apart.


    Kudos to Geert Jan and this needs to go Up-Stairs to the DIY sticky in this forum !!!!!!!!
     
  12. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 mwr4440, Oct 4, 2010
    Geert Jan,

    In post 8 above, I cannot get the o-ring and metal end (first two parts from left to right) out of the FD base.

    Any ideas?


    Mark
     
  13. Geert Jan Schreurs

    Geert Jan Schreurs Karting

    Jul 14, 2010
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    Geert Jan Schreurs
    #13 Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 4, 2010
    Mark,

    You need a sort of dental tool to remove the o ring. It is very thin. The other part is the barrel ( I think this is what you meant the second from the right?) . This is how the call it in the K jetronic book. I pressed the barrel out by pressing the base with the bottom on the table. It just popped out when I used some hand force. Can you post pictures later. I curious how it looks. Do you have the K jetronic book?

    Geert Jan
     
  14. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 mwr4440, Oct 4, 2010

    Geert,

    Yep the barrel. Sorry, I am not understanding you. Please tell me again how you got it out.

    NO I do not have the book. PLEASE SEND IT.

    I am using an article from the 928 forum and your posts. The article is linked in the post you sent in German a few days ago. I can understand about 50% of it and need the wife to translate the rest.

    Be happy to post some pics and maybe do a 308 write up a bit later.

    Your wrtie-up is more than sufficient though, for anyone who wants to do this to their 8 cylinder.
     
  15. Geert Jan Schreurs

    Geert Jan Schreurs Karting

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    #15 Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #16 ernie, Oct 5, 2010
    NASTY!

    Looks like ear wax. I don't see the point in putting ear wax in gasoline. Hahahaha!!!
     
  17. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 mwr4440, Oct 5, 2010
    Geert,

    I may have found a source to get EVERY SINGLE O-Ring. They have the sizing chart of evey O-Ring size you posted and the sizes posted on another Bosch FD rebuild in another marque forum.


    I sent them an email and expect to hear back today (hopefully) USA time.



    ANYONE: Is VITON the right material we should be looking for for all the O-Rings in a Fuel Distributor?
     
  18. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
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    #18 335s, Oct 5, 2010
    individual port metering rates....how are you re-callibrating these?
    there is a 12,000.00 tool we had to buy from bosch to monitor flow rates TO CALLIBRATE, the tip off is the goofy hardware(no comment here, trick question)
     
  19. Geert Jan Schreurs

    Geert Jan Schreurs Karting

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    #19 Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 5, 2010
    I'm not suggesting you can calibrate the fd yourself. I advice everybody not to touch the calibrating screws. You have to choice between a bat running car or a two times euro 1200 bill from bosch or a diy. The choice is easy.
     
  20. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 mwr4440, Oct 5, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2010
    There is a VERY ROUGH initial adjustment procedure in the 308 WSM. That, with the published flow rate thru the injectors you can easily run (but a PITA time-wise), should get ya close. The other 10% +/- is in your tool. And of course we all WANT THAT.

    The Gist (IIRC) from the WSM: Crack the screws from closed (under the caps on the top of the FD) until you see gas flowing into the port then back off half a turn.

    Is that a good initial adjustment. Don't know. The WSM says so.


    $12K for a tool seems CRAZY, but the box it came in had a horsey on it so .......


    ... maybe you got off light.


    Just don't know but Geert has the right idea. DIY (clean) saving $1300 (in Europe) and spend $300 for fine adjustment by someone qualified or spending $1600 for it all.

    That is a No-Brainer.
     
  21. airdelroy

    airdelroy Formula Junior

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    #21 airdelroy, Oct 5, 2010
    Could you not put a gas analyzer on each exhaust and set them all to the same ratio?

    Aaron
     
  22. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #22 mwr4440, Oct 5, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2010
    I am a smart guy or dumb a$$ but I'd tune each for VOLUME over TIME first (values also in the WSM) as it requires nothing but time, effort and some beer cups and one "CC or CL" measuring cup. They all have to pour the same first, then you can adjust the total effort.

    I could be VERY WRONG though. It has been known to happen ...... :( But either way I do LEARN.
     
  23. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #23 mwr4440, Oct 5, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2010
    Geert,

    Here are my measurements:

    Metering slit O-Rings (8 each) on the barrel - same as yours: ID - 8mm, Thickness - 2mm

    And that is where it ends.

    My barrel is MUCH larger than yours. Its OD directly above the 8 metering slits is 27mm.

    Barrel O-Rings (2)
    ID: 24.1 mm
    OD: 27.1 mm
    TH: 2.0 mm (This does not make sense) :(.)

    Yep I am missing a mm so I guess I am going to buy O-Rings on both sides of this measurement to insure I get the right ones :( I'll post later in a new thread.

    The big black THIN gasket. I measured it at 0.2mm.

    I have looked at it under several magnifying glasses and I think it is "stretched" and NOT "formed." Look at the wrinkles in the port areas. There is no commonality to the wrinkles port to port as there would be if the depressions were formed when the part was made. That leads me to believe that the part was perfectly flat when origionally made. The depressions in the gasket were made by the springs in the other half of the FD over time.

    Can anyone verify or refute this?




    Geert,

    How did you get the filter off the barrel? It is on there TIGHT and I DO NOT WANT TO SCREW it up.
     
  24. airdelroy

    airdelroy Formula Junior

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    #24 airdelroy, Oct 6, 2010
    How does the $12k machine do it? Just a very accurate measurement of the flow rate? Is the goal with this machine to get the flow rates the same for each cylinder? Or is the goal to get it to a precise value?

    I would think that you could start with the WSM specs to get the setting close. And then use a gas analyzer to get them all the same. Then you just adjust the main A/F screw to get the desired mixture.

    Might take longer than the $12k machine, but I would think it would work.

    Aaron
     
  25. Geert Jan Schreurs

    Geert Jan Schreurs Karting

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    #25 Geert Jan Schreurs, Oct 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Good work guys. This is the way to learn more about the FD’s and K jetronic. Mark you can try to spray Teflon (PTFE) spray on the barrel and fuel filter first. It will slide off easier. If it is very hard to remove let it stay. To assemble the FD I used Teflon spray as well. The barrel slides easier in the house when it is greased by Teflon. If you use a ultrasonic cleaner it will get clean. I bought one for euro 80 in the Netherlands from this company.

    http://www.detectorshop.nl/ultrasonereinigers/bultronics/index.php

    They ship to Germany.

    The O rings get flat after a while. You can also measure the iron parts to get a better estimate. I'm changing the pump board now to be able to check the cold start valve as well. I have to make an extra on/off switch to check the electrical part of the cold start valve. With this extra switch and a long cable and Bosch connector I will be able to test the auxiliary air valve and warm up regulator as well.

    The test equipment for the k jetronic is described on page 38 of the book. (Mark did you received the second mails and pdfs?)(If anyone wants to receive this book by e-mail send a PM.) Without this book it is hard to know what the functions of all the parts of a FD are. With normal valves, tubes etc you can produce pressure measuring and flow measuring equipment yourself. Doesn’t have to cost 12000 in my opinion. I offer them now on ebay for less for the lazy DIY mechanics.

    see the thread about fow testing

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=299786
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