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Cloth braided fuel hose for classic Ferrari's

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Tojo, Sep 12, 2021.

  1. Tojo

    Tojo Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2002
    445
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Tim
    I've been doing some looking into the cloth braided original style fuel hoses, to replace them on my carburetor 400GT and a friend's 400i. There's retailers out there who sell the original style hose, and it seems most of them are supplied and manufactuered by Cohline/Cohpro to the 73379 DIN standard. The type with the cloth braiding is 2122 series.

    I got in touch with Cohpro to ask about the sizes they had to suit our cars, and the were pretty helpful. They did give me a word of caution about using these hoses on our old cars. Here's the quote from one of my emails:

    "Just one note about 2122, it's not great for modern fuel. If you are wanting fuel to run through it then please use 2240, I agree that a lot of these old cars people want authentic period correct hose but you'll be replacing 2122 in 6 months as it will fall apart with whatever it is that's in petrol now-a-days." Also from another email with them "the original was Cohline, I get that, but technology and fuel has moved on. if you're going to replace a hose then it's from the same company but brought up to standard and fit for use in the modern era, to me that is far superior than having a hose that could potentially land you in a fireball". He was talking about the upgrade to 2240 series hose in this quote.

    I was also given this link regarding modern fuels https://www.cohpro.com/cohline-fuel-hose

    I have also seen some people using the Wurth hose, and was interested in it, but their info page also sates that the cloth braided hose isn't suitable for fuel.

    I assume it's the ethanol content that degrades the hose, I'm not sure about other additives in modern fuels.

    I would very much like to use the cloth braided look in my engine bay at least, but I don't like the idea of it degrading either. Has anyone else got experience with this? I was thinking about the PTFE lined hoses, but they are AN imperial sized, and the outer braiding is nylon, not quite the same but in theory there wouldn't be any issues with degrading rubber and leaking hoses.

    Looking forward to hearing peoples thoughts. Cheers
     
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  3. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,176
    Northeast, PA - USA
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    Wayne
    Try belmetric.com they have an array of products.
     
  4. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    997
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    Cohpro has always been helpfull, I would follow their advice without any second thought!

    I think this reference is correct for our cars: https://www.cohpro.com/low-pressure-hose-and-fittings/hose/fuel-hose/fuel-hose-low-permeation-2240/fuel-hose-ethanol-bio-safe-14mm.html .

    This being said unlike all the other bits of rubber 14mmx22mm is quite easy to source, so that's actually the only item I did not buy from Cohpro. Some generic locally sourced cloth braided hose did the trick (https://www.oc-pro.fr/durite-carburant-de-14-x-22-c2x19017768).
     
  5. Tojo

    Tojo Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2002
    445
    Sydney
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    Tim
    Yes, I have previously looked at Belmetric. They sell the 2122 spec hose, and like other retailers, say it’s good for fuel with ethanol in it. The guy from Cohpro tells me otherwise.

    The 2240 series hose, while, compatible with all fuels isn’t correct as far as originality goes due to it not being cloth braided.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  6. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2008
    6,186
    I believe Stoddard porsche carries Cohline
     
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  8. DonB

    DonB Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    606
    Florida
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    Don Bartz
    Check out Belmetric.com They sell metric yellow zinc nuts and bolts AND German made metric cloth covered hoses by the foot. I believe their site say it's good for all types of fuel/oil. And it is available up to around 25mm i.d. They also lots of other metric hardware.
    https://www.belmetric.com/braided-metric-hose-oem-c-14_138/
     
  9. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    2,184
    For peace of mind I only use Gates Barrier hose as I have had too many problems with the braided fuel lines leaking. You could temporarily swap out braided hoses that show if you are wanting to be original for an event.
     
  10. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
    3,219
    UK
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    Tony
    Beware of fake " Cohline" products.

    I used a overbraid material, not perfect but gives you the look of a cotton braided hose. Personally i would never risk the low grade hoses again as they definately do deteriorate within months. Use the R9 spec hoses to ethanol 50.

    https://www.hilltop-products.co.uk/cable-sleeving-protection/braided-knitted-glass-sleevings.html

    There is a product which is shrinkable but cannot find it ATM

    Ethanol is a solvent and basically eats the rubber compounds.
     
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  11. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,082
    Bay Shore, NY
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    Andy
    Belmetric sells 7mm and 7.5mm but not 8mm ID hose. What I don't get is why Cohline sells fuel line that can't used for fuel.
     
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  13. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    997
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    What Cohpro said : Cohline is an old fashioned company that still make paper catalogues and do still use the exact same products as 50 years ago... The cohline braided hose formula is the same as what it used to be, in other words unsuitable for new fuels that do contain ethanol. (There are some Cohline hose that are compliant with ethanol, but not the braided ones.)

    Frankly that's a non issue as the braided fuel hoses are easy to source elsewhere. It's true however that the substitutes do not carry the green or red dashes. So if you are after concourse level, you should stick to original hoses and ethanol free fuel .

    Let's be thankful to Cohline: they are still producing all their line-up including the polyamid fuel hoses and oil cooler hoses at a very reasonable price. These hoses are impossible to source elsewhere. Even the nickel plated hoses are still available. On top of it their pricing is reasonable, and they do provide us with honest feedback on what we can expect from their products. Never had any bad "surprise" with their products (cannot say so for my other suppliers of Ferrari parts!)
     
  14. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,082
    Bay Shore, NY
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    Andy
    Where are you finding cloth braided 8mm ID fuel hose at a reasonable price? It sounds odd that Cohline can produce hose that can withstand ethanol fuel but they refuse to do it with cloth braid.
     
  15. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    997
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    My local mechanic has this type of hoses. If you look at the previous (French based) shop that I quoted for 14mm fuel hoses, you can see they also sell 8mm hose (https://www.oc-pro.fr/durite-carburant-de-8-x-13-c2x19017926). €42 for a complete spool of 15m. That's not a specialised shop by any means, no doubt one can find alternate sources easily. (The French shop sends to the US if you are desperate.)

    Note also that Belmetric writes that the Cohline braided hose (https://www.belmetric.com/braided-metric-hose-oem-c-14_138/) can sustain up to 50% Ethanol, this is also what's written on the Cohline catalogue. Nevertheless Cohpro suggests to avoid ethanol on these hoses. As @Tojo said Cohpro has always provided sound advices.
     
  16. Stimorolgum

    Stimorolgum Rookie

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    Martin
  17. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
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    this grabbed my attention on the web page!

    Attention: There is no information on use with E10. Use with E10 at your own risk.

    I have used Cohline 2240 which is a lined FKM (viton) / ECO fuel hose. Its not cotton braided but go for safety and to hell with originality.

    Tony
     
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  18. ferrarioldman

    ferrarioldman Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jun 19, 2002
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    Tom Jones
  19. Stimorolgum

    Stimorolgum Rookie

    Jan 16, 2021
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    Martin
    Well spotted and I agree.

    On my 328 I used them for the oil breathers.
     
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  20. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
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    At least they were upfront with the advice, many hide these details in the small print.

    There are lots of fakes about as well with people trying to get rid of old stock or Far Eastern imported crap. I have looked for cotton braided hose to SAE R9 spec and havent found any that are suitable at all.

    The ones i have found are only for use on breather lines or tank overflows ie occasional use.

    R9 spec hose is a fuel injected hose and the wall diameter is much thicker than hoses for carb applications. This allows them to make the viton liner and ECO / NBR outer sheath for UV stability.
     
  21. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
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  22. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
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    Tony
    I would also like to see the technical specs ie material and construction. Looked at their website (Flennor) and they seem shy divulging that info.

    Lots of these CB hoses are NBR and are no good imo
     
  23. Tojo

    Tojo Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2002
    445
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Tim
    After seeing the Flennor hose on Belmetric, I did some googling and found this interesting post on it, https://wolfgangint.com/blog/flennor-fuel-line-update-air-tech-n107 quite a favourable review. There was also a bit of positive talk about Flennor hose on a few Porsche and VW forums I looked at. No positive talk about the Cohline cloth braided hose, instead, some very negative talk about it.

    I also emailed the Flennor manufacturer to try and get a spec sheet, and catalog of what sizes they make. The PDF sent me was the same as found on their website. The gentleman who replied to me did say that the hose was not resistant to ethanol.

    Codan also makes cloth braided hose, but I was unable to find any specs for it. (Not that I looked very hard)

    Given this information my thoughts would be to use the higher spec Cohline 2240 or other manufacturers equivalent hose for fuel use, especially the unseen hoses hidden underbody, and behind boot panels etc. The cloth braided hose should be fine for oil breather applications. For someone who wants concours,or the full original look, I’d be inclined to try out the Flennor, Codan, or Continental hose, and keep a very good eye on it and avoid ethanol fuel whenever possible.


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  24. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
    3,219
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    Agree, I have searched for cotton braided hose for a long time and havent found any suitable as yet. Most lead you to assume its OK when in reality it isnt.

    Most list NBR as suitable with E10 fuels but what they dont mention is that it degrades over times and loses it elastomeric qualities and breaks down, exposure to heat (engine bay) accelerates the problem.

    a 2 ply construction with the inner liner made from FKM Viton is the best i have found so far.

    I did suggest in a earlier post to use a expandable overbraid to get the look of cotton overbraid, not perfect but acceptable i hope.

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