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Clunking rear suspension on 308?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Birdman, Nov 6, 2003.

  1. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,683
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    Hi everyone,
    So, my 1977 308 GTB has a strange issue. It clunks when I go over bumps. Kinda sounds like I have a load of 2x4's in the trunk. I thought it was the fact that the rear sway bar bushings were toast and falling off, but since I replaced them and the problem still exists, I think I can rule that out. Here's the strange part...when the car warms up, the problem is diminished (but not gone). So, I'm thinking that it's one of the suspension components that gets warm in the engine compartment. Anyone have any ideas on trouble shooting? Last time I had the car up on Verell's lift, I really looked around for bad bushings and while they are old and some are getting fatigued, none were really toast (yet). The clunking sounds like a totally gonzo bushing.

    Thanks.

    Birdman
     
  2. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    16,658
    USA
    Full Name:
    Hugh G. Rection
    Shock bushings? Maybe worth inspecting.
     
  3. pete04222

    pete04222 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    613
    Maine, USA
    Full Name:
    Peter Cyr
    Or possibly shock internals? Maybe the valving inside the shock is bad but expands enough when warm to lessen the problem. Just a guess.
     
  4. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Owner Consultant

    May 5, 2001
    6,956
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    My bets are on a shock bushing.
    About a month ago a member posted that he knew a partnumber for polyurethane replacements for 308 Koni bushings. Maybe you can find the thrad & send him a message.

    I'd like to get a set myself.
     
  5. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,683
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    Thanks Verell...I'll do a search and see. I feel like an expert at poly bushings! ;-)

    Jonathan
     
  6. Ferrari_tech

    Ferrari_tech Formula 3

    Jul 28, 2003
    1,527
    UK
    Full Name:
    Malcolm W
    This is a common fault with Koni shockabsorbers, the knocking noise you can here is air hydraulicing in the shockabsorber, after some use the air is expelled and the noise reduces. You have two solutions, replace the shockabsorbers, or if you have a Koni agent who has the correct tooling and calibration equipment they can be re-built.

    MW
     
  7. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    I had the same problem, it is the shocks. Can be rebuilt, but if you shop around you can get new ones for only a few $$$ more. Remember when you price the shocks make sure they include the bushings.
     
  8. nevpugh68

    nevpugh68 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    49
    Ashby de la Zouch, UK
    Full Name:
    Neville Pugh
    I had exactly the same problem this year. My mechanics took 3 attempts to solve it, couldn't find anything wrong at all. In the end they took the whole suspension apart, cleaned, adjusted and reassembled the lot with no new parts and the mystery noise just went away ! To this day they've no idea what actually caused the problem ...
     
  9. Ferrari_co_uk

    Ferrari_co_uk Karting

    Apr 16, 2003
    245
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Mark Langfield
    Hi All,

    Here are our prices:

    #110786 - Front Shocks - £141.50 each (approx $235.27)
    #110787 - Rear Shocks - £141.50 each
    #100809 - Shock Bush - £9.25 each (approx $15.38)

    All can be ordered securely online at www.owners.ferrari.com

    Best
    Mark
     
  10. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    My guess without seeing the car would be the 26 year old shocks/shock bushings.
     
  11. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,794
    LA
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Here are our prices:

    #110786 - Front Shocks - £141.50 each (approx $235.27)
    #110787 - Rear Shocks - £141.50 each
    #100809 - Shock Bush - £9.25 each (approx $15.38)

    All can be ordered securely online at www.owners.ferrari.com

    Best
    Mark


    I ordered the shocks for my 308 from Tire Rack they were about 117 each for the rear and maybey 125 or so for the front
     
  12. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    I am in the middle of a suspension rebuild on my 77 308...
    I have decided to upgrade my shocks/springs, so in the future I will have a used set of Konis with springs, and a new set of unused Konis from tirerack for sale.

    Here is a nasty 26 year old shock from my 308.
     
  13. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    Gee it would be nice to be able to see the pic I posted...
    I guess that it is still a bug with Macs and this new board layout.
     
  14. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    34,891
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    depends on the clunking but I would seriously advise you to have the stub axles removed & magnafluxed, they are known to crack & leave you with a 3 wheeled Ferrari which is not so good. Ive had 2 or fail on my 308QV, 1 failed on the track at Lime Rock & sent the wheel flying almost 100 ft in the air
     
  15. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,806
    socal
    Maybe Rexrcr can rebuild them. Also there was this guy in Mammoth Calif who owned Blondies rest. who was a pretty famos guy at doing Koni's.. If you called up there I bet someone knows how to find him. Rex I think said that there is variation among new shocks. A good rebuilder will dyno each to make sure they all spec out the same. Sometimes a careful rebuild is better than new. Also Truechoice has the Ferrari Konis pretty cheap in the USA. See truechoice.com.? The shock bushing is pretty low tech. Verell you could lathe cut them pretty quick out of PU of your choice.
     
  16. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    Try calling Partsource in Maine. Geoffrey is a good guy and has good prices I think I paid about 170 w/ bushings about a year ago.

    http://www.partsourcenet.com
     
  17. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,683
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    Thanks...I gave them a ring and they are going to look up the price on shocks/bushings and call me back. Seemed really nice and very helpful. I'll try to get them to be sponsors!

    Jonathan

     
  18. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,849
    The noise is from your shock internals. Had the same noise. Could not find an obvious suspension issue. Replaced the shocks. Noise went away. Car handles infinitely better. As matter of principle, replace shock-end bushings at same time.

    Jeff LeBlond in Arizona rebuilds all Konis. His price is around $135 per shock. Look and work like new. However, I believe you can purchase new Konis for the same price. Your choice.

    Jim S.
     
  19. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    My thanks to Jonathan...
    I can now see all the posted pics.

    Here is one of the New shocks I am installing...
    Looks nicer than that 26 year old POS.
     
  20. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    By the way, by going to this style shock/spring combo
    my 308 dropped another 25lbs of weight over the stock Koni shock/spring combo.
     
  21. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,683
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    Dave,
    Cool man, nice looking shock! Now you have to tell me:

    1. What is it?
    2. Where can one get it?
    3. How much?
    4. Is that the stock spring or a new one?

    I did some research and found the best price on Koni's so far at Tirerack.com for $147. I got the call back from Geoffrey at partsourcenet and he wanted $500 for 4 bushings and 2 shocks ($200 per shock and $25 per bushing). I think I can do a heck of a lot better than that just ordering the shocks from tirerack and ordering ES polyurethane bushings in the closest size. If anyone knows which ES bushings fit or has the dimensions, that would be very helpful as I could order them BEFORE dissambling the entire rear suspension!!

    I assume that I can jack the car up, remove the wheels and wheelwells and get at everything. Either that or I have to go bother Verell again!!! (Don't worry Verell, wouldn't be for a few months...if I spend any more $$ on this car in the near future, a certain wife is going to confiscate the checkbook.)

    Birdman
     
  22. Robert Johnson

    Robert Johnson Karting

    Dec 8, 2001
    57
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Robert Johnson
    My car does the same thing, I have new shocks and urethane suspention bushings. Turns out the problem is in the rear hatch closers. The right rear (where all the noise is comming from ) was not adjusted properly for quite some time and the hinge receiver has a wider and deeper than usual groove. So, the hatch vibrates (ratteles) up and down causing the noise, no matter how the hatch and closer latches are adjusted. Adjusting the height of the hatch bumpers or catch does not solve the problem. I have not replaced mine yet, but it is on the list. When the car is driven and the body pannels heat, the problem is lessened but is not resolved. Check your closers for wear and let me know what you find.
     
  23. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    Jonathan,
    I'll post all the details soon, it's been a long day...
    Funeral, wedding, and a symphony ball all in one day.
    There goes Saturday!
     
  24. Ontogenetik

    Ontogenetik Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    149
    >Cool man, nice looking shock! Now you have to tell me:
    >
    >1. What is it?
    >2. Where can one get it?
    >3. How much?
    >4. Is that the stock spring or a new one?


    judging by the image name (an advantage of having to dl it to view)
    it is an eibach. beautiful.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22eibach%22
     
  25. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    The shocks are QA1 light weight aluminum similar to the ones used by Henry in an earlier thread.
    They were purchased from Summit.
    The springs are from Eibach, 325lbs front and 275lbs rear...
    Arm bushings are from Energy Suspension, 13.3101G
    I always try to get the "G" bushings over the red bushings, as the G means Graphite impregnated,
    so they wont squeak...

    Here is an upper arm showing the mod needed to clear the new shocks.
     

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