News

348 Clutch bleeding mystery.

Discussion in '348/355' started by 348steve, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. 348steve

    348steve Karting

    Jul 18, 2018
    132
    Full Name:
    Stephen G
    Hello all,

    Just got the engine back in after a great experience doing the major plus a whole lot more. The car is still in the air as I prepare for first start.

    I bled the brakes real easy. I used the plan ordinary two-man bleed technique, only this time it was one woman and one man .... the wife participated!

    One thing I noticed that was missing from FBB's simple steps was the point that it is a good idea to listen for the ABS pump to start during the down stroke and then quickly close the bleed valve till the pump stops. This ensures the pump isn't doing the job of driving the fluid through the circuit.

    In any case I bled the clutch next and all appeared great. The old fluid came out, some air bubbles came out and then all was clear. But alas the clutch is gone. No pressure on it at all, one finger can get it to the bottom.

    Ideas?
     
  2. 348steve

    348steve Karting

    Jul 18, 2018
    132
    Full Name:
    Stephen G
    I stand corrected, FBBs instructions sure did mention that bleeding should only take place when the pump is off. Listen for it!
     
  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    9,105
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Stephen, try a Motive bleeder. That has always worked for me.
     
  4. steved033

    steved033 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Apr 12, 2017
    1,709
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Steve D.
    The motive worked for me. bubbles came out...then a bunch of fluid, then a bunch more bubbles, then all was good.

    sjd
     
  5. Streetsurfer

    Streetsurfer Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2015
    844
    near Chicago
    Full Name:
    Ron
    Do you have one master for both brake and clutch? It may have dropped fluid level below the level where the clutch line is plumbed into the master cylinder, and sucked in air.
     
  6. steved033

    steved033 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Apr 12, 2017
    1,709
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Steve D.
    a single reservoir feeds the masters...

    sjd
     
  7. dahveedem

    dahveedem Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2012
    1,542
    Maryland
    Full Name:
    David
    You need to also bleed the clutch line as well.
    I had the same OMG moment what did I break.

    Have wife get in the car while you crack the bleeder screw fir the clutch (left rear, low near the oil dipstick) you cant miss it.

    Once you crack that open have her compress the clutch pedal. Hold it down. Do that a few times til no air bubbles. Have her hold down on last one as you tighten bleeder.

    Now turn on ignition and pump clutch a time or two. Should be good to go.

    I always have ignition on when doing this so the abs pump is enaged.

    HTH.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
  8. 348steve

    348steve Karting

    Jul 18, 2018
    132
    Full Name:
    Stephen G
    Thanks everyone, here are a few notes in the end.

    @dahveedem , The clutch does not need to have the ignition on as the ABS is not involved in that function. It only needs to be on when bleeding the brakes. But either way no harm done.

    In the end I was told by another FerarriChat fellow that one trick with an initially limp clutch is to simply pump the clutch vigorously, and take note after 10-20 seconds if it stiffens up. It did stiffen up. At that point you can bleed again to see if you have mobilized any air.

    All is god now.

    Thanks!
     
  9. dahveedem

    dahveedem Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2012
    1,542
    Maryland
    Full Name:
    David
    Thanks good to know! Better to save the battery!

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
  10. dahveedem

    dahveedem Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2012
    1,542
    Maryland
    Full Name:
    David
    My clutch saga continues a bit. Did the R&R of the old old clutch. Definately much better engagement now and the pedal isnt spongy at all.. actually feels kinda like the 911 now.

    I'm thinking I don't have it bled enough as I'm still getting a little but of trouble engaging once in a while.

    I used my motive bleeder and had my daughter pump up the pedal then press down and I opened the bleeder. Did this a few times.

    But in reading the last post it sounds like I should pump the pump the. Bleed and don the process again? It doesn't really come out that fast if I do just that.

    Running about 10lbs of pressure through the motive. Maybe I need more?

    Help what am I missing.?

    Also didnt see a write up about R&r of the MC so I grabbed photos and will create a DIY for it.

    Once I get ryback adjusted....

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
  11. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    1,172
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Was fine before the maintenance was it? If so is the pedal throw correct when putting master back in it was same thread count? I thought I read higher pressure than 10 out here btw.

    Sent using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  12. Pangea

    Pangea Formula Junior

    Mar 27, 2011
    356
    UK
    Full Name:
    Nick
    This clutch bleeding method was described to me years ago by a Ferrari tech. Use an assistant. Maintain the fluid level at all times.

    I think this brings together most of the suggestions in the above posts..

    1. Make sure the clutch master cylinder is free of air first by assistant pumping a few times then immediately crack open and close the outlet pipe on the front of the master cylinder. Repeat until just fluid appears. Air can get trapped in this area. Especially if the system is allowed to drain right down.
    Check fluid level.

    2. Jack up the rear of the car as high as you can. Helps air to move back towards the bleed point.

    3. Assistant then pumps the pedal vigorously 10 to 15 times. You then immediately crack open and close the bleed point at the gearbox.
    Repeat process 3 until air free fluid is seen and a firm pedal is achieved. Keep checking the fluid level.

    I struggled until I rang him and got this info. Ive bled my clutch three times like this without a hitch. No damaged seals.

    He did say they used a similar process at the factory.

    Since then Ive seen a video of the cars being built at the factory and in one brief scene the tech is pumping a pedal vigorously as described. I presume they are bleeding the clutch at that point. I cant find the film or I would post it here.

    This is the old school method and it works but Im certain pressure bleeders can be a massive help if you have one at hand.
     
  13. dahveedem

    dahveedem Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2012
    1,542
    Maryland
    Full Name:
    David
    Thanks for tip. I'll try cracking that outlet port and bleeding it there then do the rear part.

    She did run great today but I think I can eek just a bit more air out of her.

    Gonna see if anyone else posted about pressure somewhere.. I don't wanna go too crazy.

    Will revert back with outcome and findings.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
  14. thorn

    thorn Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    2,026
    Tallahassee, FL
    A side note on the pedal pumping: pumping it very quickly can aerate the fluid, and end up making the job more difficult as the action turns a few bubbles into a lot of bubbles (imagine shaking a bottle of soapy water.) The preferred usual practice is pump slow and steady, not fast as you can. You also don't want the pedal to "bottom out" against the firewall as you do it.

    If you've got a pocket of air that seems "stuck", better to tap the master cyl with a plastic mallet to encourage it to move. (or reverse bleed, if you have the tools to do so.)
     

Share This Page