CLUTCH question: Kevlar, ceramic, CF? | FerrariChat

CLUTCH question: Kevlar, ceramic, CF?

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by RayJohns, Jun 26, 2007.

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  1. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    Question - can anyone give me an idea of the pros and cons of different types of clutches? I'm speaking with Tilton about a clutch/flywheel for my 360 (for street use) and I am interested in going with something that might wear better/longer than the stock unit. Is there any benefit to be had from switching to say a carbonfiber or Kevlar clutch or perhaps a ceramic unit of some sort? Which would be best for the street?

    I want it to drive/feel nearly the same as the stock clutch, just wear longer basically. Tilton is talking about a new flywheel also.

    Any and all comments/suggestions/views welcome.

    Ray
     
  2. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I would listen to what they have to say.
    Contact other manufacturers that supply all the different styles, so they dont just push the one they offer.
    The Lamborghini enthusiasts would know clutch preferances better because of the problems with Countach-to-Murcialago clutchs.
     
  3. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Normally, if the car is stock, a stock clutch will give you the best service at the best price.

    To your actual question though, there are still some variables and give and take with all the options.

    Kevlar is used pretty commonly on street clutches to increase holding forces, I’ve never seen one wear as well as a plain organic disc. They are sensitive to heat, over-heat it and you need to pull it apart, deglaze and re-seat it to make it hold again, at least that’s been my finding. I don’t personally think it’s a great option and I’m not sure I would use one again.

    Ceramic and metallic are not normally considered for street use. Unless someone has something new out, they are very on/off and hard to modulate for a smooth start.

    Carbon/carbon works well on the street, but I’m not sure of the life expectancy. I have a tilton triple disc 7.25” carbon/carbon in my 500+hp 308 and it works well. I had to change the pedal ratio, but if tilton is doing your set-up, they should take care of that for you. On the plus side, the pedal force is VERY low, honda civic low, which is great in traffic and the clutch just laughs at heat. On the minus side, it’s not sprung, so it will chatter a bit if you’re not careful, and it is harder to modulate than any OEM clutch I’ve ever driven, not bad once you get used to it, but definitely harder to be smooth with from a stop. Over-all, I like it and would buy another one….I just hope I don’t need to any time soon.
     
  4. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Great info, thanks very much! Do you have any photos of the Carbon setup? Did it require a different flywheel and/or pressure plate? How many miles do you have on the clutch so far?

    Ray
     
  5. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Ray, here are 2 threads I post when I was planning and doing the clutch

    http://www.thebestemployee.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1030
    http://www.thebestemployee.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4309

    The clutch is a clutch pack really, which includes the pressure plate.

    I used the stock flywheel, but modified it to work with the new clutch and made an adapter for the throw out bearing. I decided to stick with the stock flywheel for 2 reasons, cost and streetability. The cost one is obvious, but a really light flywheel/clutch on the street can be a bother in traffic, you need higher rpm and smoother action to pull away smoothly and since mine is a street car, I decided to use the heavy stock flywheel with the new extra light clutch as a good compromise.

    I only have about 4000 miles on it….I took the engine back apart thinking that since the clutch is rated to 800 ft-lb torque it was just plain wasteful having an engine that only put out about 450. I’m porting the heads, higher lift cams, new intake, bigger supercharger, better ECU and traction control to help get it to the ground…I’m still not going to get to 800 ft-lb torque on pump gas I guess, but I should hit 600 and 750 hp or so…unless I add nitrous too :)
     
  6. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Thanks for the great information Mark. I read both threads. I have a call back from Tilton, but haven't had a chance to return their call and speak with anyone about the CC clutch.

    I agree the heavier flywheel is better for street use. Light might be good once you get the car moving on the track, but for street driving, the stock flywheel would be better in my view. I'm going to contact Tilton and see what they have to say. The 360 has a strange problem with the pressure plate, so I wouldn't be opposed to switching to a Tilton pressure plate to see if it might correct that problem as well. See my post on the subject here:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149344

    If I do replace the clutch, I don't think I'm going to use the stock unit. From what I have read, the carbon/carbon seems like the best of all worlds and I don't mind if the car is a little grabby off the line.

    Thanks again for the info. If I do anything, I'll be sure to post a run down on here.

    Ray

    BTW, I have run nitrous in the past. Save your money. It's fun while the bottle is full, but unless you live next door to a filling station, it's too much of a hassle. Plus, a lot of places don't do a very good job of filling the bottle, so it's difficult to find a shop that actually gives you what you pay for. A few 1/4 mile runs and it's empty again. Not worth the hassle unless you drag race and must have it for just that short period of time and nothing else. Otherwise, you spend most of your time just driving around with an 20 lb empty blue bottle on board :)
     

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