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Clutch slipping question

Discussion in '308/328' started by touque, Jan 31, 2013.

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  1. touque

    touque Karting

    Mar 27, 2012
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    TroyB
    #1 touque, Jan 31, 2013
    On my '83 QV, my clutch was slipping slightly when I bought the car - figured it was probably due for a replacement. Did an adjustment a few months ago to bring the pedals more in-line.

    So my clutch will slip but if I lift the clutch pedal with my foot as it's slipping, it'll grab like it's supposed to. Is there any sort of adjustment I can do or is it really time to replace that disc/pressure plate, etc?

    Yes I think the answer's pretty easy (replace it!) but figured I'd ask the F-Chat braintrust if I'm missing anything simple :)
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Steve Magnusson
    #2 Steve Magnusson, Jan 31, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
    Are you saying that you did the adjustment (turnbuckle 7 in Service Bulletin 21-2) to only bring the pedals into line, or did you also set the lever geometry at the engine end per the functional adjustment spec (turnbuckle 6 in Service Bulletin 21-2)?
     
  3. touque

    touque Karting

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    #3 touque, Jan 31, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Steve - I adjusted #6 to around 45mm (if I recall correctly - it was 40-45mm).

    Edit: Not the length of #6 of course, but from the center of #8 to the center of the 'wheel' - as shown below!
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  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    26,826
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    #4 Steve Magnusson, Jan 31, 2013
    If the externals are all OK, doesn't leave you much choice except to go inside.
     
  5. touque

    touque Karting

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    #5 touque, Jan 31, 2013
    that's what I suspected thanks!
     
  6. PT 328

    PT 328 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 1, 2005
    4,005
    #6 PT 328, Jan 31, 2013
    Troy,

    If you end up having to replace the clutch and plan on installing it yourself Birdman has a write-up on the procedure that includes pictures. It can be found here:

    Ferrari 308 Mondial parts and service
     
  7. touque

    touque Karting

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    #7 touque, Jan 31, 2013
    thanks Dan - I already have looked at it a few times and planned to use his procedure! I'm a picture guy so his type of write-up is great for me!
     
  8. klatu

    klatu Formula Junior

    Apr 13, 2009
    277
    San Diego
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    Rob Mckinney
    #8 klatu, Feb 1, 2013
    Just finished my clutch on my 81 GTSi. Do yourself a favor, and put the #6 clevis rod clevis on the bell housing before you put it back on. It was a b##### to install once the bell housing is in place.
    Good luck.

    Rob
     
  9. touque

    touque Karting

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    TroyB
    #9 touque, Feb 1, 2013
    nice tip - thanks! Did you replace just the disc and pressure plate or anything else (o-rings, pilot bearing, throwout bearing, etc.)?
     
  10. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2005
    3,321
    UK
    #10 Iain, Feb 1, 2013
    He's right about that clevis pin!

    It takes that long to get in there that it would be a folly not to replace the release (throwout) bearing & if you are doing it yourself I'd also have the flywheel off to clean it & check it and the rear main seal while you are it it. The pilot bearing is easy enough to do while you are in that far too (see youtube for "the paper trick" to remove it.

    If it is genuinely slipping then I wouldn't leave it too long because if you cook the flywheel its not cheap to replace. My understanding of the best way to check for clutch slip is to be driving the car in about 4th and mash the pedal at around 4-5K rpm - at that point the engine is delivering maximum torque through a fairly high gear. If its going to slip , that will be when it starts.

    Another option is that your rear main seal is out & you have oil on the clutch - that wouldn't help! Either way it will still need replacing.

    You definitly need the three O rings & you will need something like some Loctite 518 flange sealer as well.
     
  11. klatu

    klatu Formula Junior

    Apr 13, 2009
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    #11 klatu, Feb 2, 2013


    The whole ball of wax.

    pressure plate

    disc

    pilot bearing

    main seal

    release bearing

    o rings

    My buddy at the airport made me a complete set of tools out of SS to do the job, and I can tell you it makes a big difference if you have the right tools. I used Birdmans narrative as well, and all was good exept that damn clevis pin, however, his write up was on the old style linkage, so it was not included.

    I bought all parts from Superperformance,at less than $600 del.

    Good luck

    Rob
     
  12. klatu

    klatu Formula Junior

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    #12 klatu, Feb 3, 2013
     
  13. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2005
    3,321
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    #13 Iain, Feb 3, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
     
  14. flyngti

    flyngti Formula 3

    Jul 16, 2009
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    Eric L
    #14 flyngti, Feb 6, 2013
    As I recall, I tried to put as much of the linkage on before reassembly (#2 and #6). However, the main arm #2 interfered with the frame rail and I was not able to get the bellhousing back on with #2 attached. If I was to do this again I would probably attach #6 at the rear lever and zip-tie it temporarily to keep it out of the way but leave off #2. You're right, getting that hidden pin in from the top is a PITA! I probably should have mentioned this in the writeup :) Sorry, I have no tips on how to drop in that pin. As with everything else on this car, space is tight but you've eventually get it. Much like working on the alternator, or the front bank spark plugs, or in the passenger footwell, or...:)
     
  15. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #15 robertgarven, Feb 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. touque

    touque Karting

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    #16 touque, Mar 4, 2013
    hey guys - all things pulled apart, cleaned and everything ordered and arrived EXCEPT I forgot to order the rear main seal :(

    So trying to find the part number of it and am having issues. Trying to look at all the places and the diagrams and want to make sure I get the correct thing. Does anyone have the correct part number so I can research and buy?

    I've looked for rear main seal, crankshaft seal, etc...

    I should have said that I found part number 200323 but wanted to verify as I've seen conflicting info.
     
  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Mitchell Le
    #17 yelcab, Mar 4, 2013
    go to Ricambi website, look up 84QV, and under the page flywheel housing, you will find the sealing ring item 2.
     
  18. touque

    touque Karting

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    #18 touque, Mar 4, 2013
    wow I looked under clutch, gearbox, differential etc. and obviously didn't see this - thanks.

    they refer me to 106244 which becomes product not found. There's an option for 40000230 and when I search that which then says superseded by 200323.

    And that's the number I had :)

    T Rutlands and AW Auto don't have 200323 but 163989 which is the 'old' part number btw for anyone else looking out there.
     
  19. touque

    touque Karting

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    #19 touque, Mar 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    so... more questions!

    Looking at where my rear main seal goes, I need help determining if I have one and it's metal (covered), or the turkey that was in there last didn't install one?

    I think I remember reading that some front seals had a metal covering, and I saw where someone put a screw in there and used it to pull it out. Not sure if Ferrari also did this to the rear seal? There was no rubber-like seal in mine - this is how I found it. Not sure if I need to put a screw in there and pull it out, or if the wasn't one there to begin with? I'd hate to tap a screw and find out it wasn't supposed to be removed...

    There's a clear indentation between the side of the crank end and the cast opening. It appears that there 'might' be a red seal under the metal covering but I'm not 100% obviously.

    Oh and when I did pull out my clutch disk, yes it was very thin (7mm) so it definitely was due to be replaced. A lot of glazing on the flywheel and pressure plate too.
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  20. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #20 robertgarven, Mar 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. touque

    touque Karting

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    #21 touque, Mar 6, 2013
    Yep Rob - already pulled the pilot bearing. It was a bear to get out. I had to modify a bearing puller (shorten the tabs on the arms of a puller) and take many turns hammering it with a slide hammer. Now trying to figure out if I have to remove anything or just press the new seal in place when it gets here. Depends on in the seal should be flush to the case or to the crank.
     

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