CO emissions at idle speed. | FerrariChat

CO emissions at idle speed.

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Stef65, Jan 4, 2022.

Tags:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Stef65

    Stef65 Karting

    Apr 28, 2015
    194
    reg Antwerp Belgium
    Full Name:
    Stef
    Hi,

    I had a red card during my last weeks Technical Car Control here in Belgium.
    Vehicles/oldtimers registered between 01-10-1986 and 31-12-1997 can only have a max 3.5 % CO emissions at idle speed. Mine was measuring 4.2, (on both sides).
    I have a '89 Mondial-t, 48.500 KM original delivered in France.
    During the weekend, I drove my car a lot and once warmed-up I let her made a lot of RPM (5K - 6K).
    This morning I went back for control, but again RED, no change still measuring around 4.1, 4.2.

    any idea what I can do ?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2004
    2,371
    Argent/Brasil
    Full Name:
    Guido
    CO (check) laten afstellen ! You should do this every time before going to the testcenter. Can be done in every car shop that has a CO meter...
     
  3. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    Have you tried some fuel injector cleaner in a tank with say 10 ltrs fuel in, give it a good hard run and see if it helps. Leave it in at the test centre
     
  4. Stef65

    Stef65 Karting

    Apr 28, 2015
    194
    reg Antwerp Belgium
    Full Name:
    Stef
    Yes I have used cleaner before I had a good drive.
    Thanks for the feedback.


    Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met FerrariChat
     
  5. Stef65

    Stef65 Karting

    Apr 28, 2015
    194
    reg Antwerp Belgium
    Full Name:
    Stef
    Thanks Guido, can every car shop do this or do I need a Ferrari-garage?
    De CO afstellen bedoel ik dan.
    Waarmee of hoe moet je dat afstellen?


    Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met FerrariChat
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #6 Steve Magnusson, Jan 4, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2022
    I assume that your Mondial t does not have cats (or, if you do, they really aren't working, otherwise, your coachwork would be on fire). 4.2% CO is rather rich, but ICE without cats run well rich. This jpeg shows where the CO adjustment screws are located:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    The Mondial t WSM CO spec is 0.7% +/- 0.2%, but that is a very tight spec for low emissions, and something like 1.2%~1.5% CO would be fine (or even 2% since you've been at 4.2%):
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    The good news is that your 3.5% maximum CO limit is a very generous spec that should be easy to meet. I don't know the sensitivity of the CO adjustment screws on your model (perhaps a Mondial t or 348 DIYer can comment), but I'd be tempted to just turn them some CCW at warm idle -- just note how much you turn them so that you can return them to their original positions, if necessary. If you go too lean/too far CCW, you should detect a bad change to the warm idle, and could turn them back some in the CW direction. A bit "Stoogie", but you are not that far from passing now. If you don't have a copy of the Mondial t WSM, and you'd like one, you can get a pdf copy here:

    (I'm editing this link in so please wait. Having some trouble with Dropbox so will add to another post if I can't meet editing time deadline.)
     
    jkstevens2 likes this.
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
  8. Wingnut

    Wingnut Karting

    Feb 11, 2005
    124
    Corolla, NC
    Good link Steve. It took me about a minute to download the 652 pges in the Mondial t workshop manual. Now, if only the Italians had some organizational skills in setting it up, but some interesting bedtime reading.
     
  9. Stef65

    Stef65 Karting

    Apr 28, 2015
    194
    reg Antwerp Belgium
    Full Name:
    Stef
    Big Thanks Steve!.
    I will try this out during the weekend and will provide you feedback on this.
    I believe You provide me already the WSM a few years ago. I just clicked your link and thought, humm, I think I have downloaded this already and yes, I had the WSM already on my hard disk. Thanks a lot !
     
  10. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,248
    The Netherlands - NH
    Full Name:
    Tijn
    I had the same last time :) but I adjusted it on the spot and it was ok. Be careful adjusting it without measurement equipment as it is very sensitive (at least for the 3.2)

    My initial thoughts are as Steve Magnusson. Make sure your cats are working and I believe you have them :) It's not uncommon with the T that one brakes down. I know at least 3 people in NL that had not working cats on their T or 348 and didn't pass MOT.

    Something has changed during the last time you had MOT, assuming you didn't change anything on the fuel system a non working cat will be a very high chance. Not sure if you can read out the lambda (O2 sensor) easily?
     
  11. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,248
    The Netherlands - NH
    Full Name:
    Tijn
    Ps. why we didn't meet up yet as neighbour countries? :):) I say a mondi meetting this spring/summer
     
    Stef65 likes this.
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
  13. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,248
    The Netherlands - NH
    Full Name:
    Tijn
    I have part of the answer... :) it depends from where in the EU your Mondi was bought new.

    In Europe (The old EU countries that is) All '92 Mondials (and petrol passenger cars in general) need a catalytic converter since 1992, but I see Stef has a '90 Mondial. I had in my mind he had a 92 model. The question is from which euro country.

    In some EU countries you needed (Like in The Netherlands) one on a 1987 model. So if you have a Mondial that originates from Denmark, Germany, Greece or the Netherlands you should have a cat and some cases an O2 sensor. (a 1992 Euro Mondial needs an O2 sensor if I am not mistaken, EU regulation)

    Euro 1: these vehicles were officially introduced by Directive 91/441/EEC in July 1992, and were the first to be equipped with a closed-loop, three-way catalyst. They also necessitated the use of unleaded fuel. Euro 1 vehicles were introduced earlier in some countries by means of incentives. These included the voluntary programmes in Germany, introduced after 1.7.1985, which called for compliance with the US 83 limits for cars < 2.0 l. For cars with engines larger than 2.0 l, some additional voluntary measures were introduced. These were Directive 88/76/EEC (relevant for all countries), with implementation date for new vehicles 1.1.1990 and US 83 (only relevant for Denmark, Germany, Greece, the Netherlands) with the following implementation dates: Denmark 1.1.1987, Germany 1.7.1985, Greece 1.1.1989, and the Netherlands 1.1.1987.
     
  14. Stef65

    Stef65 Karting

    Apr 28, 2015
    194
    reg Antwerp Belgium
    Full Name:
    Stef
    Mine was delivered in France with a first date on 01/01/1990, assuming the car is build in 1989.
    Not sure if I have cats.


    Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met FerrariChat
     
  15. Stef65

    Stef65 Karting

    Apr 28, 2015
    194
    reg Antwerp Belgium
    Full Name:
    Stef
    Hi Steve,
    I went back to the Technical Control and YES, I have a green card again ! ;-)
    Thanks to your picture.
    I turned 6 times CCW to go from 4.1 to 3.1 on both sides at warm idle (+- 80 C). I did this in steps of half turns while measuring the CO emissions. With the first half turn, I was thinking, mmm, this does not change a thing.
    I will probably turn them CW again a few turns next weekend because I feel that the idle is not smooth any more.
    I just need to remember to check it before I go to the Technical Control again in 2 years time from now.

    Again thanks for your advise and it proofs that this Fchat is really valuable !
     

Share This Page