News

CO1000

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by furmano, Sep 9, 2018.

  1. furmano

    furmano F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 22, 2004
    16,258
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    furmano
    The CO1000 is going on this week. Man, how many 250 SWB's are entered? More than a few, that's for sure. Hopefully people can post up some good picks. There are some great cars entered. My favorite so far is a crazy Abarth. Or a 410 SA.

    -F
    Image Unavailable, Please Login View attachment 3123379
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    10,801
    Thank you.
    Entry list?

    Marcel Massini
     
  3. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    1,617
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    How is it possible to enter SWBs and other '61 or later cars on this event ? I've heard of rumors that some "non-eligible" entries come from board members, whom one would think or at least hope having higher ethics than that.
    What's next, replicas ? Or are they already littering this too ? Are all these vintage events now organized by same types as Monterey Historics and Goodwood Revival ?
    Just curious.
     
  4. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

    Apr 5, 2010
    1,910
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/http://co1000.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Colorado-Grand-Application-2018.pdf

    Cars produced in 1960 or before are allowed so perhaps 60 - 70 SWBs were made in 1960 so they are fine to be entered......
     
  5. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    5,334
    SF
    I had the good fortune to go om the California Mille a million years ago. The cutoff was supposed to be 1957 but there was a 1958 250 TR on the event. Nobody complained. Maybe since a few TR's were made in '57 the theory went that it was a model that would have been eligible for the original Mille.

    So maybe it is models introduced up to 1960 in the CO Grand??
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  6. furmano

    furmano F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 22, 2004
    16,258
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    furmano
    I'll get an entry list later this week. The cut off is 1960 or older. Sometimes newer cars are allowed for special occasions or if the car has something special about it. Not sure about the 250 SWB's specifically.

    I'll post up the list when I get it.

    -F
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  7. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    1,617
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    I see Shelby Cobras, even 427s, having participated before. I guess if one stretches entry rules enough those too can be viewed eligible since they were spawn from ACs, which can trace their history to very early years of 20th century.
     
  8. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    10,801
    Still no entry list?

    Marcel Massini
     
  9. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,539
    From the catalog (which, I often observe cars on the Grand that aren't in the catalog)... Ferraris only:

    Race No. 28 1954 375 America no s/n given. Green body, white top.
    Race No. 33 1956 410 Superamerica s/n 0481SA
    Race No. 38 1962 250GT s/n 3863GT
    Race No. 39 1960 250GT SWB no s/n given. All rosso corsa.
    Race No. 41 1958 250GT s/n 0977GT
    Race No. 50 1961 250GT SWB Sefac s/n 2676GT
    Race No. 59 1956 250GT Comp Berlinetta s/n 0555
    Race No. 77 1959 250 LWB Comp s/n 1321GT
    Race No. 79 1960 250 SWB Comp s/n 1813GT
    Race No. 80 1959 410 Superamerica s/n 1423SA
    Race No. 85 1960 250GT LWB Cali Spyder no s/n given. Rosso Barchetta (maybe). ex-Publicker
    Race No. 86 1956 410 Superamerica s/n 0479SA
    Race No. 92 1961 SWB s/n 2617
    Race No. 95 1958 Series I Pininfarina Cabrio no s/n given. Black.
    Race No. 109 1953 250MM s/n 0310MM
    Race No. 125 1961 250GT PF Cabrio Series II s/n 2109GT
    Race No. 127 1960 250GT Berlinetta Comp s/n 2033GT
    Race No. 133 1956 Boano s/n 0609
    Race No. 134 1953 166MM Vignale Spider s/n 0314MM
    Race No. 140 1959 250GT Coupe no s/n given. ex-Betx & Peters.

    CW
     
    Timmmmmmmmmmy and of2worlds like this.
  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    10,801
    Thank you very much.

    Marcel Massini
     
  11. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    1,617
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    Well, the application states "...built in 1960 or before".
    Perhaps all those '61 and later cars were all "built in 1960" ? :rolleyes:
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  12. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

    Apr 5, 2010
    1,910
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    The model is a 1959 design so maybe that lets all members of the model become classified as such? Just a thought.
     
  13. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2004
    1,397
    Correct. All SWBs are grandfathered in for that very reason.
     
  14. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    1,617
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    And Shelby Cobras similarly as I described earlier ?
    Also, isn't the GTO just an extension of SWB design ? Has any been featured in this event yet ?

    Why do these events even bother with their hypocritical "rules" any more ?
    All it seem to accomplish is to make them look, well, hypocritical ?
     
  15. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

    Apr 5, 2010
    1,910
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    The FIA were between pillar and post with the GTs in the early 1960s, the Aston Martin DB4GT Zagato, Ferrari 250GTO and 250LM, Jaguar E-Type Lightweight and Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe all came along with requests for homologation and for a while GT racing looked like it would replace Sports prototypes as the pinnacle tin top class. Only Ferrari was truly competing in Prototypes, yet here were four manufacturers with some stunning looking and relatively evenly matched GTs with all the top Formula 1 talent driving, it made for a great show. What was ostensibly a category for production roadcars began to get stretched and the FIA helped by allowing all of the manufacturers to essentially modify anything so long as the standard chassis/engine/windscreen wasn't radically changed and once Aston had the Zagato and Ferrari the GTO approved it was open season although the game was over once the Daytona Coupe was approved with the FIA returning to the letter of the law and we all know the result because the 250LM was banned. Sure the FIA were hypocritical but are the CO organisers hypocritical, I think not.

    Bob Sutherland established the Colorado Grand 30 years ago and he was a car collector of the same ilk as Steve Earle and was a major collector with 30 - 50 of the finest Ferrari's and more so looked to create an event were people could go and drive really cool cars. To this day it is run by amateurs, car guys just like you and I and while they have a committee and sponsorship, the event has stayed true to its roots and that includes no real public presence because its typically designed as a drivers tour rather than the pi$$ing match Monterey/Pebble Beach can be. Its not perfect but I quote a key point in the 2018 entry form, so they are trying...... Monterey historics have gone all faceless corporate, something this event has not and thats surely a good thing?

    We want to improve our car descriptions for the 30th anniversary. Please put together 140 words describing what makes your car unique.
    Please describe the individual history of your car, including such events as acquisition, restoration, racing, rallying, or concourse participation. If you need more space, attach a separate sheet
     
  16. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,539
    GTOs are not viewed as an "extension" of the SWBs and, accordingly, are not eligible for the Grand. However, several years ago (50th Anniversary in 2013, IIRC), the GTO was given an exemption, and several did turn out. I cannot recall which cars attended, though.

    CW
     
    Timmmmmmmmmmy likes this.
  17. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula 3

    Jan 21, 2017
    1,565
    IIRC the GTO was 'Omologato' by the CSI (the former FIA) specifically because it was considered a 250 GT, otherwise it would not have reached the production number needed...
     
    Timmmmmmmmmmy likes this.
  18. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

    Apr 5, 2010
    1,910
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    Totally correct, minimum production for homologation needed to be 50 if ruled a new car versus no minimum if a variant of a car already homologated, note that the 50 examples had to have been produced not just planned although there was some scuttlebutt around that process. To get the 250GTO through they had to retain the windscreen, most of chassis and the engine whereas the 250LM didn't retain any of them and there was no way Ferrari had enough money to build 50 of them in one production run. What was fascinating is that in 1967 the FIA decided to homologate the now outdated 250LM as a group 4 despite only 30 odd examples ever getting produced and the minimum production still being 50.
    https://historicdb.fia.com/car/ferrari-250-swb
    https://historicdb.fia.com/car/ferrari-250-lm-berlinetta
    (click the links for fascinating forms and documents)
     
  19. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,539
    GTOs have not been eligible. For whatever reason(s). So, I suppose it can be argued to the entry committee that they should be.

    Maybe PM camchain and see if he can shed any further light?

    CW
     
  20. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    35,531
    Texas!
    Editorial comment. One of the cool things about Ferrari guys is they don't a ****. You want to paint your car a different color, go for it. Having an old Ferrari means you didn't have to explain, you didn't have to apologize. You are a car guy, period. Compare that to Porsche guys. Geeze Louise, talk about guys who count how much toilet paper they use when they take a dump.

    Case in point is Malcolm. (Hey dude.) The first time I met Malcolm was at the FFQC. He entered his yellow Daytona in the concours after driving it to NO from California. He didn't even clean the love bugs off his car. However, he was explaining the fine points of a Daytona to the judges, and the judges appreciated it.

    Frankly, I think the Colorado Grand people should do whatever floats their boat. It's gotten to the point where the next time I go to Monterey, I may only go to the Concours d' Lemons. Whatever happened to just having fun?
     
    Timmmmmmmmmmy likes this.
  21. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,539
    I'd very much enjoy doing the Grand. I don't, however, have a car that's eligible. That is a problem that can be solved, but I also know that I have to find one that meets their criteria.

    Anyway, yes. The Grand-ers endure all sorts of inclement weather when they do these events. There's camaraderie, I'd imagine in that. And, you don't have to show up with a $20MM 1950's even-numbered car to participate, either. Although, that's how I want to do it.

    CW
     
    Timmmmmmmmmmy and Texas Forever like this.
  22. calder1

    calder1 Formula 3
    Sponsor Owner

    Aug 26, 2006
    1,434
    Redondo Beach
    Full Name:
    Craig
    I did the Colorado Grand for the first time this year and i have to say it was one of the better organized events I have been to in years and really enjoyed it. Looking forward to next year.
     
  23. CO_Grander

    CO_Grander Rookie

    Oct 21, 2017
    3
    Telluride
    Full Name:
    Kelvin
    Bob Sutherland and His Cars <Bob & his cars>



    During a recent discussion with a fellow Grand participant, I rather reluctantly mentioned that I have a video of an open house that Bob Sutherland hosted many years ago. I was reluctant because I knew that there was a relatively high probability that I couldn’t find the tape. I was almost right


    There is an old joke “I found it in the last place that I looked.” In this case, had checked 5 boxes with more than 120 VHS tapes and I was almost out of options. When I opened the last box, the third tape I looked at was labeled “Bob Sutherland”. I was overjoyed but that didn’t last long.


    I was expecting to make a copy onto a DVD and I was within arms reach of my Philips DVDR600VR, which can easily do just that. I loaded the tape but couldn’t get any video the the TV. I pushed eject but the tape only popped out half way and stopped. I’ve been down that road before. I removed the cover from the recorder and carefully extracted the tape from the transport mechanism. The only damage was about 1/4” of wrinkled mylar


    Video tape is a very poor archival medium. After working for Memorex for 4 years, I know all of the failure modes for transverse and helical scan tape. I left the cover off of the recorder and took it to another TV. The VHS cassette had been stored with about 40% on the take up reel. I inserted it and it started to play so I pushed rewind. But when it finished rewinding, it would not play.


    I could see that there was no tape showing in the transport mechanism. It had pulled off of the take up reel. So, I dismantled the cassette and repaired it. After that I burned a DVD. It made 5 chapters, each about 10 minutes long. I was able to play all 5 chapters contiguously on a Windows PC or a Mac but not on a stand-alone DVD player.


    There was a big crowd at the open house and Bob gave his presentation twice. I recorded both with a portable Sony Beta deck. When I edited them to VHS, I placed session number 2 for a particular car immediately after session number 1. So, in describing his experience with the 290MM at the 1984 Mille Miglia Retrospective, in a period of about 2 minutes you will hear him repeat “The car was saying ‘Work me’”. But the two sessions on the Bugatti “Tank” are about 20 minutes apart. After 32 years, I don’t remember why I did that.


    Also while making the VHS copy, I appended Bob’s invitation at the end. It obviously belongs at the beginning. On 23 September 2018 I uploaded and published my first YouTube video. The system named it VTS 01 1, which is the name that the Philips gave to Chapter 1. It is 10 minutes long.







    At that point I bought Pinnacle Studio 22 and started learning the DVD editing process. I am still very low on the learning curve. But two weeks later, after moving the invitation, creating a title, and a few other simple edits, I published the full video. It is 50 minutes long.








    One piece of advice that I got about YouTube was to limit uploads to 10 minutes or viewers will be bored and not watch to the end. I am surprised, and a bit disappointed, that better, more professional videos of Bob's presentation(s) are apparently not available. I consider this to be a 32 year old home movie. There was a wide age range in attendance that day and I'm glad that I captured many of them. Anyone who was there will probably watch the whole video to possibly see themself.


    Part of the upload process was to include "Tags". I did, and one of them was Bugatti Tank. Google is a search engine. Google owns YouTube. But if you search YouTube for Bugatti Tank, you will not find this. Why not?
     

    Attached Files:

    turbo-joe, Timmmmmmmmmmy and donv like this.
  24. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

    Apr 5, 2010
    1,910
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
     

Share This Page