Code numbers from scanning | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Code numbers from scanning

Discussion in '348/355' started by Buzzl, Jun 3, 2018.

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  1. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Test pipes will most definitely generate codes, possibly more than before.

    If
    the pump is not running when the engine is running, then it could be a relay or wiring problem. As I said before, I don't know how the ECU is detecting the 2ndary air failure, so it could be anything in that system causing the code, from hoses to relays.

    Anyway, here's a diagram I threw together earlier...

    5.2 Engine Ignition Diagram

    The diagram doesn't show relay socket numbers, though. The relay base sockets hooked up to the pump and to the solenoid valve should be 87 and 87a (I just don't know which goes to which). The relay is energised when the ignition key is in ON and the Motronics ECU commands the pump on (The ECU provides an earth). There should be enough information in the rest of the diagram to figure out which socket on the solenoid valve's 2-pin plug goes to the relay (the other goes to earth).

    If you need help reading the diagram, let me know.
     
  2. Buzzl

    Buzzl Formula Junior

     
  3. Buzzl

    Buzzl Formula Junior

    Great diagram Ian. Where is 87 and 87a on the diagram? I will check and make sure all hoses are at proper connection ( I can use Ricambis site for that). Relay at passenger foot board is probably ok although I will check. Fuse was good. Thanks for helping.
     
  4. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    I had to use 90 degree bend spacers in the post cat 02 sensors with mini high flow cats. No more codes. all fixed so far after 4 drives
     
  5. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    87 and 87a are the outputs of relay "L" which exit the relay panel on plug H (pins 4&5). The black/red and red/black wires on pins 4&5 go to the solenoid valve and pump respectively. I don't know if you're familiar with the relay panel, but the plugs are behind the panel and not easy to get to (This is why you'll have to use the relay base sockets for your wiring checks.)
     
  6. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #31 Qavion, Jun 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
    While you're checking the wiring to the solenoid valve (the one with the blue plug), check to see if the resistance of the solenoid coil is around 55ohms. Of course, make sure the tubing coming from the valve with the blue plug goes to secondary air cut off valve (inboard of the filter), not to the exhaust bypass valve.

    According to the workshop manual, the ECU should open the secondary air valve and run the pumps in the follow circumstances:
    During the cat warmup period
    When the O2 sensors aren't up to operating temperature
    When the coolant temperature is too low (between -7C and 50C on USA cars)

    As Grant says, don't get too carried away with these checks. As he suggested, your cats could be causing all these messages (depending on the fault logic for the secondary air system).

    (EDIT) If you can determine without a doubt that, say, pin 87 of the relay goes to the solenoid valve and pin 87a goes to the pump, I'll add that detail to my diagram to help folks in the future.
     
  7. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 26, 2012
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    There is a known amp draw issue with the pump that blows fuses and in my case melted the connector at the pump.

    Pull the connector off the pump and inspect the contacts.
     
  8. Buzzl

    Buzzl Formula Junior

    Connector looked good when I removed the pump. Thanks Doc
     
  9. Buzzl

    Buzzl Formula Junior

    The filter seems very dense. Would like to replace it. What do you guys use?


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  10. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    This is how they do it.

    When the engine is up to operating temperature, the ECU turns on the secondary air pump to induce a lean running condition. If it does not see that from the O2 sensor precat, then it throws the CEL secondary airpump circuit not working. And it also does not allow the monitor to be 'ready" and you fail the smog test.

    While these two CEL codes seem unrelated, I would fix the cat efficiency code first and then see if the secondary air code also goes away.

    Possible secondary air culprits are many:

    1. Bad Ecu, or bad ECU wiring
    2. Bad air solenoid
    3. Bad vacuum can
    4. Broken hose(s)
    5. Bad pump
     
  11. Buzzl

    Buzzl Formula Junior

    Thanks, is it possible that my 02 sensor spacers with the steel wool inside take care of the CEL? Others have said it corrected. I do not plan on installing new cats. My state does not require emissions test.


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  12. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Probably not, but a mini-cat and steel wool would take care of that low efficiency error.
     
  13. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Right now you don't have any knowledge what is causing the CAT code. If the element is breaking up - that's bad. You really need to find the root cause of the problem. If you want to remove the cats, gut them, or install test pipes and then fake the system out, that's a separate issue.

    Broken pieces of the CAT ceramic element left inside is dangerous. It's time to open them up and have a visual inspection.




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  14. Buzzl

    Buzzl Formula Junior

    When Rifledriver did the engine out they cleaned out the cats according to the PO. So if they've been gutted would this not cause the CEL to come on? Thanks Dave
     
  15. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    If they are gutted that certainly is the cause for the issue. I'd be suprised that Brian would let a car leave his shop with a CEL. Guessing more to the story.

    For $1500 and a couple hours labor you could install hi flow CAT's. Your problems would be gone and the people in cars behind you could breathe freely without watering eyes.
     
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  16. Buzzl

    Buzzl Formula Junior

    Yeah, I may end up doing just that. Thanks Dave
     
  17. Buzzl

    Buzzl Formula Junior

    I also noticed on the parts diagram on Ricambi's site that the cut off valve at the Air pump where the vaccum line attaches faces the back of the car. Mine is facing down. Would this cause any problem? Not overlooking anything.
     
  18. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Mitchell, this is completely opposite to what is written in Workshop manual 1, page C44. Something lost in Italian to English translation?
     
  19. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Mitch must have had a type O. The secondary air injection system is for cold cats, not hot. I'm certain Mitch knows this, VERY certain.
     
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  20. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Maybe it does both. I did ni think so but what Mitchell said does make sense.

    If the OP could clarify, you said that Brian said cats were weak, niw you said they were cleaned out, as Dave said if they are cleaned out so they are now empty inside this is your problem. If you want to leave thm like that and not throw a cel you need to trick them as Dave also said.
    Again I would not bother with all the other stuff until you fix the cats. Your engine needs one or the other
     
  21. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Hold your horses.

    When you reset the CEL, the computer has to start from scratch and go through its self test of all OBD2 emission monitors. One of the monitors is the operation of the secondary air injection system. The ECU tests that system by warming up the engine to operating temperature and then injecting the extra air to see if the car runs leans or not. If not, it throws a code and you fail your OBD2 test.

    When all the monitors are known to be working, then normal operation is for the air injection system to come on only at start up to help burn the excess rich fuel in the system at cold start.

    So, it does both at certain times.
     
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  22. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for the clarification, Mitchell.. Makes more sense now.

    Cheers
     
  23. krazykarguy

    krazykarguy Formula Junior

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  24. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    I'm glad my horses are held ;)

    Yes - that's correct.


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  25. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    I am happy I have your trust.
     
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