Cold weather coolant temp?

Sounds a bit low.

Not a real mechanic here just talking...

Could be a sensor of some sort or possibly low level of coolant.

Checking the level shouldn't be a big deal, just check the owners manual on exactly where the level should be.

If you intend to add some, do make sure it is the same type and properly proportioned.

Good luck and please keep everyone informed as to how you made out.

 

Sounds like thermostat isn't operating properly and stuck open....

The thermostat stays closed to allow the engine to get to operating temperature. Once it hits whatever temperature your thermostat is valued at, the thermostat opens, allows coolant through the radiator to be cooled, and thus cycled through the motor

If the thermostat is stuck open, the coolant is constantly cooled and it will take forever for your engine to get up to proper operating temperature.

 

Yup...sounds correct.

 

The easiest way to change it is to take it to a shop and have someone else do it. My 360 was delivered to me with the incorrect thermostat and it wasn't functioning properly either. The temp was too low in cool weather and that can cause serious engine damage.

So I bought one in a Ferrari box and changed it myself. It's something of a PITA, and if you're my age (and size) you'll need some Ibuprofen and have a few scrapes and bruises when you're done, but you can do it with ordinary home shop tools. I did a post somewhere entitled something like "360 thermostat change, lessons learned" if you care to search for it. By the way, you don't have to take the seats out and if you're clever you can leave the shoulder harnesses in too.

As for a non Ferrari part, I couldn't dig up enough reliable information on which thermostat would fit for sure and I didn't want to have the car disabled because I tried to save 50 Euros, so I choked a little bit and paid for the genuine thermostat. I'm still angry about it though, so if you actually locate a suitable replacement part, please report back.

In any case, I would certainly recommend you make the change before the weather gets even colder. It ain't good for the motor to run too cool.

 

Can you advise on how having your themostat open would cause serious engine damage? Open thermostat just means that the coolant is consantly being circulated. Its actually good for the motor.. Not good if your looking for heat in the cabin.. Cooler engines always run better vs. hot.. Not cold! Cool.. I'm sure if you have her idle a bit your temp would go up to normal ranges. These cars are so efficient in cooling utilizing the ducts that once you start to move and air starts to flow is runs really cool especially when on the highway. Traffic, city driving, and stopped at idle she comes back up.. You really get alot of movement at the gauge during the cool months.. If your at idle and she comes up to normal temp and then goes down while in motion I would call it normal.. Dont panic.

R

 

I agree with Robbie, and mine is on the low side anyway. And since all the fuel and timing maps are temp corrected, there should not be an issue.

I still would worry about it being stuck open, because it could theoretically later stick closed. But first I would check the temp with a pyrometer at the thermostat flange/temp sensor. Granted it won't be 100% accurate as you will be measuring the skin temp.

 

Your engine is not operating at peak efficiency when cold, your vehicle is producing more emissions, and deposits on the valves and possibly in the combustion chamber will collect.....

Also, don't you think that engineers, if it wasn't bad for your engine, wouldn't have created/designed a thermostat if it didn't benefit the motor? They don't just put it in there for no reason, right?

 

Let it idle .....do the fans come on, temp go up them ? Just another parameter to look at...

 

Who is talking about cold.. We are talking cool here.. Thermostats are needed so you have heat.. Cool engine runs and performs better.. Once again cool not cold.. there is a difference.. Do race cars have thermostats?

R

 

Dan- What you are describing is pretty normal for most late model Ferraris, which have very efficient cooling systems when they have airflow over the radiator(s). Critical is oil temperature and she should get above 157 F in about 10 minutes or less and stay in that region or higher. There is a warning to stay below 4000 rpm until you have the oil warm. As long as oil temperature is reasonable, you should be good.

 

Your cooling seems normal to me. My 360 does the same as well as my Testarossa when I had it.

R

 

I don' tknow, I don't build race engines. I have built regular engines and thermostats are not in the head so you can feel heat in the cabin....

What is your definition of a "cool" engine? We are not talking about "cool" vs "cold" We are talking about the difference between an engine that is not getting up to proper operating temperature vs one that is. One that is will be running more efficient. Any engine at operating temperature is not running "cool" I can guarantee you that.....bet you won't be able to put your hand on the intake manifolds....

So, while I'm not familiar with these engines, to me, it doesn't sound "normal."

 

Yes, you can most likely do it. Even old fat guys like me can do it. It just hurts us more. Here is a link to my earlier post which you should read and then decide.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/410261-360-thermostat-change-lessions-learned.html

As for people saying that running very cool near the minimum stop on the gauge is normal, they're wrong. It's an indication of a non functioning thermostat or the wrong thermostat. As others have pointed out in this thread, Ferrari cooling systems have great ducting and they function very well at highway speeds. At low speeds the aux cooling fans cut in to provide airflow. But at high speeds in cool weather, when the cooling system has a great deal of extra cooling capacity, the thermostat is supposed to close down to restrict the coolant flowing to the radiators. With less coolant going through the radiators, the engine will not over cool. In other words, the thermostat is supposed to function just like any other thermostat; i.e. it's in there to keep the temperature steady.

By the way, fitting the wrong (cooler) thermostat won't fix a car which overheats but that doesn't mean people won't try. Mine had the wrong one when I bought it and I suspect many others do too.

Mine goes right up to just above 80C on the gauge within a few minutes of starting the engine and stays there under all circumstances except at slow speeds on hot days where the fans cut in at around 93 degrees or so. It never goes above 100C. Other than stop and go traffic, it is ALWAYS rock steady just above 80c and that's exactly the way it's supposed to work. If drops off as the car speeds up, something's wrong.

Running too cool reduces fuel atomization which can wash oil off the cylinder walls. Failure to get the oil hot prevents moisture from boiling off and that can form harmful deposits and acids inside the engine. Too cool reduces fuel mileage and, of course, reduces the efficiency of the heater. In some cases you could find yourself on the highway in cold weather with very low water temperature causing oil temperatures below 70C which means you shouldn't exceed 4000rpm.

Bottom line: A Ferrari should have a functioning thermostat of the correct type. Just because many apparently don't does not make it "normal".

 

Looks A Ok to me.

R

 

Your symptoms are exactly the same as mine were when I took delivery of my 360 other than the fact I have an Italian version marked in Celsius. I bought mine from a large Ferrari specialty shop which typically has 80 or 100 cars in at any one time; i.e. they do a LOT of Ferrari work. They assured me that this is "normal". Of course, it isn't. Perhaps they were trying to avoid fulfilling their one year guarantee. It wouldn't be the first time a used car salesman was ........... um ............ let's say stingy with the truth.

Anyway, after I changed the thermostat I discovered that my old thermostat was the wrong type and it wasn't functioning properly either. As I mentioned earlier, replacing it with a correct thermostat results in the water temp immediately rising to about one needle width above the unlabeled mark which is halfway between 140 and 210 on your instrument. This happens in a few minutes (three to four?) after I start the car and certainly before I get to the foot of my driveway. As expected, the oil temp rises more slowly.

Unless I slow down on a hot day, it remains at what appears to be about 83C absolutely rock steady regardless of outside temperature or speed. When I stop in traffic it may rise to 93C at which point the first fan turns on and it doesn't go any higher.

This is exactly how it's supposed to work according to the Ferrari documentation and exactly how anyone familiar with automotive cooling systems would say it should work.

Your current situation (identical to my previous situation) is certainly not correct even though it might be common enough for some Ferrari owners to claim that it's "normal".

I'll bet a dollar to a Zeppole that when you replace your thermostat with the properly functioning one of the correct type, your cooling system will work properly and you can get on to worrying about more important things like when your cam belt will break and when the leather on your dashboard will wrinkle up.

 

Still sounds normal to me, too, for a cool day.

 

Everything looks good to me DanNE....oil temp looks to be around 165 F, which can be due to the oil viscosity, the fact that this motor takes 9 L of oil.....probably is normal for these engines. Water temp between 180 - 210 F is definitely normal....you're good.

 

But the water temperature is NOT between 180 and 210. It's just above 140 after 25 minutes of driving. Read the post again. I may live in Italy, but English is my first language.

He says that after 15 minutes of driving the water temperature has just barely moved off the stop. Furthermore, it stayed that way after extended cruising at highway speeds. Water temperatures this low are not correct. Even if everything looks good to you, the OPs car is not operating correctly.

Only after slowing down for stop and go traffic and waiting for a total of 45 minutes did the water temperature come up to where it should be. This is NOT normal and if your car does this, something is wrong.