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Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Napolis, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    With collector cars some mention the 30 year rule. That cars 30 years old get a bump in price due to buyers being able to buy what they coveted as teenagers. The NYT has an article about 70ies cars receiving that bump. Are you interested in collecting cars? Put $ aside.
    Which ones and how many would you buy? Would you drive, show, or vintage race them?
     
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  3. writerguy

    writerguy F1 Veteran

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    I have been thinking about this for a while and started an OT

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5097

    Our friends came up with some really good suggestions.

    But your input on this.....
     
  4. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    I still OWN the car I coveted as a teenager, 1982 Alfasud. My other cars are 1980 308 and 1981 Lancia Montecarlo and I think I still have them all when they are 30 years old, about 2010-2012. Will they be worth a lot? Not in money but in savings because I like them and don't need/want to buy other newer or more expensive cars.
     
  5. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    That an interesting thread. I'm also asking if money isn't an issue. Collecting Art is a lot easier than collecting cars. Until you run out of walls displaying and owning it isn't a problem. Cars require a lot of attention and if you don't use them entrophy sets in fast.
     
  6. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Those are nice cars. I esp. like the Lancia.
     
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  8. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    While my '77 308GTB does match up with the "teenage years" profile, it's actually pretty effective as a daily driver I can afford.

    I'd like to have another one of those, maybe two, and the other Ferrari
    I like would be a matching 512BBi. As a recent interview with Scaglietti observed, the Boxer was the last Ferrari that could be considered as
    "hand built" in his shop.

    After that, the newer Fcars were more "mass produced" as quantities went up. Not to take anything away from the newer cars. A yellow/black 550 Barchetta 6 speed would be styling!

    I'd drive, show, and track 'em all.
     
  9. writerguy

    writerguy F1 Veteran

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    Too True
    I am really on the look out for a Nissan 240z that i can do some work on.

    Funny, There are no North American cars on my list of Most Wanted. I don't think I am alone on this but when i was growing up in the 70-80s there was nothing that turned me on except the early BMW M cars and other German and Japaneese.
     
  10. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Point well made about the art!

    I've got many Jay Koka, etc., and had to quit puchasing them when display space ran short.

    A friend observed I could change them out periodically for different ones, but putting something "away" is the same as not having it all.

    Beauty wasn't created to sit in the dark.
     
  11. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    It will be back on the road, only dust!
     
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  13. Challenge

    Challenge Formula 3

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    James, if I get lucky enough to make it to old age the way I'd like to, I've always thought becoming an exotic car broker/dealer in retirement would be my dream. I can't wait to see this year's Barrett-Jackson (starts tonight I think) as it gives a taste for what's currently hot.

    No doubt that people always gravitate towards things that they were exposed to when growing up because it brings back comforting memories when life was happier and more innocent. This has manifested itself in the "bump" in USA iron with 60's-70's muscle cars being the hottest items in recent years.

    Incidentally, my mother sold her all-original 67 Camaro the year before I got my driver's license for about $1500. On day one of the 2002 Barrett-Jackson auction, the highest sales price for a car went to a red/black 67 Camaro just like it...$110,000. Gee, thanks Mom!
     
  14. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I feel your pain. When I was 17 I begged my Dad to buy a 250GTO for $6500. When I told him I'd even drive my sister to school in it every day he replied: "Without a heater?" and wouldn't go for it. That said he did buy a few Hoppers and a Bellows that meant more to him. He grew up during the depression looking out at Hopper's "East River" and at the age of 89 he still gets to look at it. (When he's not out skiing)
     
  15. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Is that a sun roof?
     
  16. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    It's the spider version, canvas roof that you can roll up and store under a lid/hatch over the rear window.
     
  17. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I think you're right. Muscle cars have appreciated so much as of lately. They made so many of them too! Yet they all have prices of $15-100k+. I think exotics may be a little out of favor now in America, but I think we always have the rarity advantage.

    Go out there and buy all the imports today. That's what teenagers today will be buying for memories sake in 2020?
     
  18. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Rob
    The Fast and The Furious. Slamming. The young kids do really like these things. But in fairness to them they do crowd around when I bring my MK-IV to local cruise nights. They think it's a kit car but they are interested. It's funny to think about what that car will seem like in 100 years. Will it be leke my Dusey is today?
     
  19. Erich

    Erich Formula 3

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    The Duesy is a work of art, but it does not inspire any passion in me.
    My fault, I was born too late.

    As a teenager, my boss helped his father restore a Cord. They showed it at Pebble Beach in the late 60's early 70's. Today he is still a car guy, but his passions run to vintage racing a Shelby GT350 and cruising in a 427 Cobra replica. He is in his 50's so even early exposure to an earlier generation of cars is not enough to overcome the imprinting of current cars that goes on in your teenage years.

    Erich
     
  20. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Erich
    I think you're right but my 15 year old daughter does like riding around in it. (She like's all of my collector cars so you're still right) I like driving it as well. It's like driving a time machine.
     
  21. trkevin

    trkevin Formula Junior

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    What did your father told you when the 250GTO was sold for an record amount in (I believe) 1989?

    In such a case you should like to turn the time back. Isn't it?

    Do you know that Nick Mason (owner of 3757GT) in the 80s brought his kids in the winter with his 250GTO to school. Because his modern cars wouldn't start.
    Nick Mason bought his GTO in the '70s for 35,000 dollar or pounds. The seller thought he has done a good deal. But about 15 years later the cars' value was raised more than 200 time.
     
  22. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I do mention it from time to time...
     
  23. lotustt

    lotustt Formula 3

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    Napolis, maybe i missed the thread but i would like to hear more about your collection(s)and even more pics if possible. That Dusenburg is gorgeous!!!
     
  24. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    That is J446 ex Queen Marie of Yugoslovia. When $20 a week was a living wage she paid 20K to Duesy for the chassis and 20K to her Parisian coachbuilder Frany to body it. I bought it at auction several years ago and turned it from a trailer queen into a driver. It's won several awards including Pebble,Louis Vutton, CCCA National First, and Greenwich.
    7 liter straight 8 alum 4 valve heads which Enzo copied ,it makes 250hp at a time when the Cad, V16 made 160. Dusenberg was the first car made in America to win a GP. They raced at LeMans, and won Indy. Cockpit adjustable timing and carb, self oiling system, and hydrolic brakes.
    Pretty cool.
     
  25. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Interesting question, Jim...

    I see this as three different sandboxes. First, you have collectors who treat cars and motorcycles like art. Second, you have your restorers who enjoy the process of bringing back something from the dead (sometimes they bring back too much, but that's another story). Third, you have your drivers, whether on the street or the track.

    I confine my collecting activity to motorcycles from the 60s (mostly because I was 16 in 1968). When I turned 50, I decided to hang up my leathers, but I still love the look of the older motorcycles. It doesn't get much better than a 1970 Triumph Bonneville (of which I have one). I don't need to ride them anymore. I can just pull up a chair, sip on a glass of Macallan, stare at the bikes, and remember when. Even better, I don't have to deal with oil leaks, stuck carbs, vibration that would shake your teeth loose, thick smoke, slow horses, and fast women while I stroll down memory lane. All I need to do is to convince my wife to let me hang them in the house. Maybe someday.

    Because this is a car board, I will not bore you as to which motorcycles I lust after from a collector perspective, except to say that they are all from the 60s.

    Personally, I'm not at a place in life where I have time to do the restoration thing, even if I farm the work out. Maybe if I was better organized, I'd have the time. But if I was better organized I wouldn't be wasting time on F-Chat. :)

    On the driving side, I was actually headed this direction when I figured out that I could buy a 5-year old Maranello for less than a 30-year old Daytona. The fact that the Maranello has a real A/C made this a slam dunk.

    However, I'm slowly coming to the realization (or is it quickly?) that one problem with the newer exotic cars is that they are too good. (And yes, I do conside the Maranello to be an exotic.) Do the ton in my Bonneville, and it will let you know that you having more fun than the law allows. Do 150 in the Maranello, and you might as well be driving your granny to church. Only problem is that, sooner or later, doing 150 on the highways and biways of this great country will bite you, hard.

    So, after my road trip to Pebble Beach this Summer, I'm leaning toward getting a vintage driver. No traction control, no ABS, no idiot lights coming on randomly, no OBD, RD2D, or BBC, or FBI, or CIA, just dig it. (Yeah, I know that I'm plagarizing from the Beatles, Mr. Hart. Get over it.)

    If I was to go with the cars from my youth, this would exclude Ferraris. In the panhandle of Florida or the flat fields of Illinois (where I went to High School), the only sports cars were MGs, Triumphs, Jags, Corvettes, and very rarely, a Porsche. Ferraris were something that you read about at Le Mans and whatnot, but you never saw one on the road.

    However, after many, many years of screwing around with British motorcycles, I ain't making that mistake again with British cars. While seeing a beautiful XKE will still move my heart, it will not budge my pocket book.

    Only problem with the early Corvettes is that darn straight axle. In real life, it was the Vette that lost it on Dead Man's Curve. The Jag broke down before it got there.

    So what's catching my thought dreams for a vintage driver is a Daytona or a GTC. If I got way off the deep end, I might even consider a 275...

    Having gotten this far, though, I have a question for you. Lately, I have been thinking that it makes more sense to get a vintage race car than a street car. That is, it probably makes more sense to drive on closed tracks than the open road. Plus, because I'm an old fart, a newer race car is probably not the best idea. I plan on living to be an even older fart.

    But here's my question -- How much fun it is to drive vintage race cars? In their day, they were state of the art. But the art wasn't all that advanced back then. For example, is your GT-40 a beast to drive at speed? Again, in 1965 or whenever, I'm sure that drivers raved over your car. But that was 35 years ago. Is it still fun to drive today, or would a later model race prepped BMW M-3 be more fun?

    My apologies in advance for the length of this post. Once dem fingers start flapping, who knows when they'll stop?

    Thx, DrTax
     
  26. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dr. Tax, stop wasting your time here and look at my taxes! :D:D:D

    Good post BTW, in a random wandering poetic way.
     
  27. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

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    I think the 30-year rule is pretty on the money. Now, here's what I'm curious to see in 15 years or so: kids today have less regard for history relative to generations past and have more of a "live for the moment" attitude. Interest in Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, etc. isn't what it used to be since not only are there so many high-performing cars on the market, but those with real heritage cost crazy money. Instead, interest has turned to self-tuned performers (nee, "ricers") which give them their kicks for much less. So, at the Barrett-Jackson 2021 car auction, are there going to be a bunch of cheesy-looking Civics and Mitsubishis on the block selling for $1million? Or will there be a return to tradition at some point? Will this generation's enthusiasm for performance evolve to marques like Ferrari, Porsche, etc? Or are they going to be ricers for life?
     
  28. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Very, very good question.
    Dr.
    Some 35 year old race cars are still a lot fun to drive but that said they aren't modern racecars which to me the main difference is massive downforce. IMHO Vintage racing is a very wide river. It's MGB's to scary fast GTP cars. It's different in Europe than it is here.
    Like you I hung up my leathers. I only demonstrate now. I could claim it's because my cars are to some extant irreplacable pieces of history but there's more to it than that. When my son was born my wife pointed out that flying gliders, helicopters and racing in anger are a young man's game and I agreed. That's why I enjoy driving them on the street on sundays. I also enjoy restoring them and learning their history and trying to get the details right.
    You're very right. Vintage machinery feels MUCH faster that new stuff.
    I too remember driving a Bonneville down highway one enroute to hear Janis sing with Big Brother and every time I see one I can feel that ride, hear her sing, and see her dying right in front of my eyes...
     

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