Collecting Cars

Woohoo, soon my 29 year old GT4 (1975) will be worth Millions!!!!

 

LOL...!


i don't necessarily i think i would have a "collection" if i had the means... i'm weird like that... i wouldn't pursue the most valuable or rare cars, i would just pick up a few that i really like... Obviously an NNO, but i wouldn't mind a deep purple 250 LM for a daily driver... Like you said, cars are different than paintings that if they don't get used, they'll wither away... i don't think i could justify a huge collection as it would be neglected to an extent...

Lately, i see a lot of old american muscle cars on the road... Not sure if they're coming out of hiding or i just never noticed them before... i'm not really into american muscle, so it's neither here nor there...

As a kid, the only cars i wanted were exotics... The Countach, Testarossa & 308/328 ring a bell more than anything else... In any collection of mine, though, a TR is a must... (a 250, a 330 and a late 80's TR)...

 

I think Gilles has a very good point about shifting values / interest - and I'd say even more fundamentally that in 20 yrs time - particularly in Europe - you have to wonder what the place of internal combustion engined cars will be... (think steam locomtives, propellor aircraft or - to a lesser extent - mechanical wrist watches..).

(I know California leads the world on tightening emissions controls etc - but overall Europe is far less car-friendly that the US... There is even serious talk of older cars being banned from London.. Can you imagine, no more 1960s Astons & Bentleys lining the streets of Kensington. The end of civilisation as we know it).

Driving a Daytona in England already feels feels like a slightly subversive thing to be doing - not in relation to hostility from other drivers etc etc, but becuase of tightening environmental regs. My mechanic has to temporarily 'tweak' it to get it through the annual emissions test (relying on a 'sympathetic' tester to turn a blind eye...!).

It's funny - when I was a kid I wondered if I'd even have enough time to own a car before the oil ran out - but now it is all the new 'green' regs coming out of Europe than have me worried...

Still, at least with Ferraris et al, you have something that represents the 'best' - even if ultimately it becomes obsolete. So, you probably have something that will retain some value.

In relation to collecting, I'd much rather have quality than quantity - even if that meant owning one $100k car than two at $50k... Better still, I'd 'collect' the experience of having owned a few classic vehicles, one at a time....

John

 

Jeez, Jim, another Fave. I didn't know you had 446! Lovely bodywork. Both it and the Franay boatail are stunning. I rode in Briggs' SSJ back in early 80's, smitten for life. I have same pic on hard drive @Christies
LK

 

Jim....

I agree with the 30 year rule too, as the last 2 decades of being in the car market and the car business have sort of validated the theory for me. Having said that, "coveted" and "collectibility" are two different words, and we have to remember that when appraising potential acquisitions.

I'd buy a 73-74 455 SD Trans-Am right now in a heartbeat.....but the market is way overpriced IMHO, probably due to people recognizing this trend and the timing. I wouldn't think twice about a 79 Trans Am at all for example.

Great topic BTW............the only problem for the future is that the 80's are not full of anything coveted or collectible at all, except for certain Eurpoean sports cars that HAVE ALWAYS BEEN coveted, and probably always will be.

 

Challenge, I wouldn't cry too much. Chances are almost certain that the Camaro that sold for $110,000 had the COPO 427 engine or perhaps the ultra-rare aluminum block ZL1 427. The ZL1 wasn't available until 1969. Highly unlikely that your mother owned one of those. Only a handful of COPO 427s were ever made, thus the extreme rarity and associated sky high price.

 

Mr. G., someday, sometime, somebody has got to sit you down with your favorite beverage, turn on the tape recorder, sit back, relax, and let it flow before you go.

Take Care, DrTax

 

i whole-heartedly agree... i think Jim's had more of an interesting life than most of us put together...

 

Muscle cars have been a nice return on investments....but they are only good in straight lines. Tooting my own horn, but does anybody know about Lotus Europas? The Twin Cam and Specials, not the Renault engine ones.

These cars are exceedingly rare in great condition. Here's one on eBay which is nicer than mine for paint but not as good mechanically (email me for details if you want).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2454203092&category=6312

The price at this moment is over $16k which is cheap for a top condition sportscar; a 308 at this price will be very needy indeed. Europas were quick for the day but of course slow by today's standards (0-60 in 6.8). But even today, nothing can touch in them the corners except MAYBE an Enzo or F40. They are still raced in ASP autocross and are competitive against all comers. The thrill of driving one on the street is amazing! You can do 60 MPH and feel like an F1 driver; cars that top at 180 MPH are quite sedate at realistic road speeds.

The downside of course is reliability. Mine took over $10k in upgrades and I'm not done, but it's a sweet car that gets me there and back. It attracts crowds like a 308. Women hate it because it's small and noisy so you KNOW it's a great car! LOL And they are so rare that the car buffs flock around it like crazy, and they are the most fun to talk to with your pants on.

Lately values have risen. That EBay car was worth $12k just 2 years ago. I doubt the public in general will ever rediscover them, but if you want a priemier driving experience on a budget, NOTHING can touch a TC or TCS Europa. And it may even be worth something in years to come.

Ken

 

The 30 year rule may point to which cars are about to become more popular and thus see price increases.... but that does not mean that the older, earlier era cars are going to become in less demand and thus see prices decline.

Its not Bugatti T35 GP cars are cheap these days. Nor is Jims Duesy likely to be picked up for $20k in 15 years time.

Remember, while its true that todays youth in general is not as into the older, more classic machinery.... the population is still growing exponentially. In the future it wont take anywhere near the same percentage of car nuts to be "into" the older stuff to keep demand growing.

Sure, not as high a percentage of todays youth is going to lust after a Daytona.... but with only 1285 cars built, it wont take as large a percentage to maintain or increase values. Also, the market will become even more global than it already is.

I think rare cars, cars with a unique history, the classic marques, true muscle cars and other really "COOL" cars will always maintain value and/or increase. There will be gear head guys who grew up with ricers but later in life gain a better understanding of class and real craftmanship and become VERY into cars like a P4, a 335S or a GTO.


Terry

 

I tend to agree with TSpringer... I don't doubt the 30-year rule, but in my case I suppose I should be into 512BBs and Countaches (I graduated from high school in 1984). Instead, for some reason, I tend to gravitate to the mid-late 60s cars, from the Lusso through the Daytona.

A big part of the attraction of the older cars, for me, is the historical aspect. When I drive my 365 2+2, I like to imagine previous owners dashing off to Pebble Beach in it (it was a northern California car when new). I like the idea that there are only 800 of them. I like poring through the 30-year old service receipts, imagining the goings-on.

I also love the sound and romance of the older cars. Don't get me wrong, I like the new cars too (I own a 456), but the old cars make every trip an adventure.

So, yes, I do want to have a collection. I think an optimum number is probably 3-5 cars. More than that, I imagine it would be hard to drive them enough. Driving them on the track is fun, and something I like to do once in a while, but I'd rather run out for bagels on Saturday morning or drive up to Forest Park and go running on a nice afternoon.

I also like to take trips in my cars, which is one reason why I've gravitated toward the touring cars like the 365 2+2 and the 456. Weekend trips to the beach, that sort of thing.

I also don't see my collection being static-- there are too many cars I'd like to own at some point in my life. Let's see, I'd like to own:

Lusso
330GTS
365GTB/4
365GTC/4
550 Barchetta
360 Coupe
612

And, at least once in my life, I'd like to buy a new Ferrari. Since I don't want to own that many cars, I will have to sell some once in a while. Or maybe not, who knows?

Interestingly, from a collection standpoint, I'm pretty much a single-marque kind of guy. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate other cars (I own a few), but I'm not that interested in collecting them, except maybe for a Ghibli. No logical reason, just the way I am.

 

my list is short:
- 275 GTS
- 365 GT4/BB

i would drive them, no shows because my cars are always dirty, i hate to clean cars
no vintage racing, because i'm not experienced enough...

 

donv....


Im similar to you. I prefer the older cars. Currently I have a Daytona and a '69 911S. Im musing on possibly getting a Maserati Ghibli or maybe another E-Type.

Im 36 years old. The cars I love are mostly from before I was forming memories. The cars from the late 70s to 80s do little for me (I just sold a '77 308.... and I do like 911s from the 80s but those cars are timeless).

I think many of todays "ricers" will be F-car guys when they are older and many of them will grow into appreciation for the vintage cars.


Terry