Comair Accident

Like you said once before, " But for the grace of God go I." Too many people don't realize the difficulties involved in flying at night, taxiing at night, and habitual routines. I have done it and by the grace of .........
Attitude and strict adherence to procedures EVERY TIME.

 

Perhaps some of you out there who have flown more night work than I have , could tell what YOU look for when you have been directed to taxi to the active. Is there a lighted runway heading designator. Is there a bright string of lights marking the edges of the runway all the way to the other end. Is there a compass on the panel. Are the taxiways marked with blue lights. Regardless of the taxiway route being modified at that airport aren't there enough indications that you are at the end of the active runway? Am I missing something here? I am not criticizing or judging this crew but I don't understand how this could happen.
Switches

 

Here is the path the plane took and where it ended up.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Thanks for the pics Admiral. What a tragedy that these people had to die by something that was easily preventable and never happen.

 

Every civil aircraft has a wet "whiskey" compass in direct view of the crew, from Piper Cubs to 777's.

From one's earliest lessons, the pilot in command must first set the directional gyro to the same setting as the wet compass. For instrument pilots, one of the checklist items once taking the runway is to compare the assigned runway with the heading as shown on his instruments, i.e. the D.G. AND the wet compass. (just in case he set the D.G. wrong)

I also was taught, during my instrument training, to check the heading I just set on my D.G. while taxiing on the parallel taxiway for the opposite of the runway intended for use. Granted, every taxi-out does not have an opposite direction phase of the taxi, but by far the majority do.

There was also a second crew member in the cockpit who is both supposed to be crosschecking with the pilot (or vice-versa if the first officer is flying this leg) and both are supposed to be using their checklists per FAA and company policies.

Forty Nine people died because the crew, in the aggregate, for some reason, became complacent and didn't operate the aircraft in accordance with their training, policies, and best judgements.

No slack here. This was just WRONG!

Planeflyr

 

Planeflyer, you just backed up the training and procedures that were stated by an ex-commercial airline pilot friend with whom I talked. It jibes with what little I was taught about pre take-off preparations at night.
Many times I heard," Do the same routine from your training and never change it."

 

According to the latest findings, the pilot(s) before applying power, commented that the runway lights weren't turned on. BIG clue that was ignored along with ignoring compass / runway headings before applying power. Sad

 

I just read that co-pilot was in command on this leg.

 

That is correct . According to the CVR , the copilot was flying the airplane and the CVR is reported to have recorded the comment between the two pilots that the runway lights were turned off.

 

Guess who taxied to the wrong runway? THE PILOT. He then turns the controls over to the CP. On top of that, the Controller had his back turned. Sounds like the FAA screwed up too.


NTSB: Lexington Controller Had Back Turned
By JEFFREY McMURRAY, Associated Press Writer
46 minutes ago

LEXINGTON, Ky. - The lone air traffic controller on duty the morning Comair Flight 5181 crashed cleared the jet for takeoff, then turned his back to do some "administrative duties" as the aircraft veered down the wrong runway, a federal investigator said Tuesday.

The crash killed 49 people _ everyone on board except first officer James Polehinke, who was in critical condition Tuesday.

The jet stuggled to get airborne and crashed in a field after taking off Sunday from a 3,500-foot runway instead of an adjoining one that was twice as long. Experts said the plane needed at least 5,000 feet for takeoff.

The air traffic controller had an unobstructed view of the runways and had cleared the aircraft for takeoff from the longer runway, said National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman.

Then, "he turned his back to perform administrative duties," Hersman said. "At that point, he was doing a traffic count."

Earlier Tuesday, the Federal Aviation Administration acknowledged violating its owns policies when it assigned only one controller to the airport tower that morning. The policy is outlined in a 2005 directive requiring that control tower observations and radar approach operations be handled separately.

FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said the controler had to do his own job _ keeping track of airplanes on the ground and in the air up to a few miles away _ as well as radar duties.

The controller had been working at the Lexington airport for 17 years and was fully qualified, Hersman said.

Polehinke was flying the plane, but it was the flight's captain, Jeffrey Clay, who taxied the aircraft onto the wrong runway, Hersman said. Clay then turned over the controls to Polehinke for takeoff, the investigator said.

Polehinke was pulled from the burning plane after the crash but has not been able to tell investigators why the pilots tried to take off from the wrong runway.

Both crew members were familiar with the Lexington airport, according to Hersman. She said Clay had been there six times in the past two years, and Polehinke had been there 10 times in the past two years _ but neither had been to the airport since a taxiway repaving project just a week earlier that had altered the taxiway route.

 

I just found out that the fiancee of a guy I went to high school with was on the accident airplane. To make matters worse, his mother died not long ago. Keep him in your thoughts, please.

I've been trying to get my head around this accident, and I can't. No matter who is to blame, it really should not have happened. There are just too many safeguards to prevent things like this. What a sad ending to such a safe period for commercial aviation. Hopefully, the old saying "They come in threes" won't apply here.

 

A private jet collided with a sailplane. Sailplane pilot bailed out safely. Jet made an emergency landing. Yesterday.

 

Any more info?

 

Now THAT is a hell of a story! Simply amazing!

 

Today it was reported that the pilots got into the wrong A/C the morning of the crash.


Here is another story on the Midair with the glider over NV

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0830dbackscrash0831.html

 

Exactly WHAT does that have to do with anything???

 

Awesome story.

Just goes to show: have a parachute! The fact that the glider pilot had a chute is solely responsible for his survival.

I'm quite surprised by the number of people who simply do not wear, and know nothing about, parachutes, in general aviation. I think it'd be reasonable to say 99% don't wear them.

Okay, so they can be a hassle, but I think you'd be slightly unhappy with yourself if you found yourself in the glider pilot's position without a chute because it was 'inconvenient'.

 

I think he was alluding to the possibility that these two pilots were preoccupied, distracted or unfocused that morning. That can snowball into much bigger things in a hurry, maybe complacency could be a factor as well.

 

Well, I think I am in a position to tell you that that is BS. A non factor. It happens occasionally. It has happened to me. To say that this is even a casual factor in this accident is grasping at straws. And yes, it is MY OPINION, but it is an informed opinion.

 

Guys, I have read all the threads on several different forums on this subject. The speculations have absolutely run rampant. We know maybe THREE THINGS for sure.

1. The crew tried to take off on the wrong runway.
2. The runway lights apparently were not on.
3. The controller did not watch the airplane take off.

Yes, the crew was at fault for trying that takeoff. And yes, it should have been a HUGE red flag that the runway was not lit. However, it was not the controller's responsibility to WATCH the airplane take off. It has been determined that the tower was understaffed, but that will come out as a footnote in the accident report, in my opinion.

The bottom line here, is WHY did a supposedly competent crew try to take off on the wrong runway? It will take the usual 12 to 8 months for the report to come out. Lets wait until then until we hang the crew.

 

I have discussed this incident with several airline pilot friends of mine , some still currently flying and some retired. The comment is always the same. important pre-take off procedures were bypassed or they wouldn't have attempted to take off on an unlit runway that was not the assigned runway to begin with. I recall the take off crash of a DC-9 when the co-pilot repeated the checklist without actually performing the item on the checklist.......like going to flaps 20 before take off. Flight crewsare human beings. Factual evidence is sometimes irrefutable.

 

The POSSIBILITY of preoccupation, distraction or COMPLACENCY is NOT B.S.
It is a viable POSSIBILITY.

If it is a "non-factor" how can it happen occasionally? and to YOU? That makes it a factor.

I'm not trying to hang anybody either. I am simply looking at the information like everyone else.

 

Tell me how this crew initially getting on the wrong airplane resulted in this accident. I am not convinced.