Anthony, I was talking mainly of Tosa and haven't seen enough of the other preceeding corners to make a determination. I am no fan of JPM but I do like the fact that he takes chances and is exciting to watch. As far as closing the door on JPM, the same rules apply as I mentioned about Tosa. MS has been legally doing this for years but non-ferrari fans (read BMW fans, of which I am also one) call him Chop-Suey for what they claim is an illegal move. It's perfectly legal and it appears that Juan thinks he can do it but others can't. As for his post race antics, well let's hope he never wins the title because they he'll really think he's god! As far as my comment on Brundell it could be a bit harsh but I would give it a lot more weight if it came from someone like Lauda or Mansell. I am simply looking at the nature of the person who made the comment and Brundell was similar to RS, RB and some other highly talented drivers who are fast but not known for bold overtaking moves. This is what seperated the men from the boys. It wins titles, and sometime it also looses them, but if you aren't prepared to take them, you aren't going to be in place to win the title. If Martin was talking of Tosa then I disagree with him about who had the line and the right away. The TV coverage of the previous corners I can't comment on because there wasn't enough footage. Regards, Jon
If Montoya had wanted to make that line work wouldn't he have to brake regardless? Why couldn't MS have tightened his line and just simply dusted him on the straight (which presumably could have happened due to the superior line)? JPM, at this point in the race, appeared to have much more pace than MS. If not trying to pass at this point, then when? Oh....and considering how close those cars are...a collision seems much more believable now.
It is the responsibility of the overtaking racer to safely complete the pass while giving the car being passed racing room. I would hardly consider someone in a Minardi dive bombing a front runner to meet that strict defintion above. If you make such a move and take the other car out you are at fault. It's a judgement call and if you make the wrong judgement you are going to pay the price. regards, Jon
www.grandprix.comI just added up the total points and Ferrari now has 64 points total of which RB has scored 24 and MS 40. I believe that RB is helping the team to the total of an average of 6 points per race so far. In most cases if one of the drivers averaged six points per race for the season he would have a very good shot at being world champ. That is unless you are driving on the same team as MS, then you are a distant 2nd. I believe that Ferrari has made the right choice in keeping him................
I'll second that, and add... I think the comments on Rubens are a bit unfair. Imola is very hard to make passes. Had MS been penalized and had to start 10 spots back, I would NOT bet on him winning, despite him being the best driver out there. Other venues, maybe... but not Imola. So, the fact that RB had trouble advancing past 5th was not particularly surprising, especially given all the traffic in front of him AND behind him... and given that he's not really desperate for points at this point in the season... better to finish with some points each race than to try to do the impossible. Its not like a win at Imola was any likelihood at all at that point. RB's main failure was in the first 4 corners... but given the melee going on in front of him, being cautious could have turned out be heroic. Consider if JPM had clipped MS and sent them both off... RS may have gone too, leaving RB chasing JB. Not knowing the team strategy, the individual gambles, how well the cars and the tires were really doing, etc., I find the highly judgemental comments on RB's performance and overall capability to be a bit misguided. With all that said, let me be clear: in no way do I think RB is as good as MS. But, I think RB is one of the fastest other than MS... if not the fastest; but not as adept or creative a passer as other F1 drivers. Thus, if I am a team with the fastest car, then I want the fastest driver... get him in front, and let him run away from the rest. And, yes, RB has proven he can do that... several times.
Here's a very high quality film clip, with commentary. To my eyes, it looks like JPM was momentarily ahead. Both braked, and JPM braked more, as he disappeared from view. MS kept on the racing line, AS HE WAS ENTITLED TO DO without JPM being ahead at the apex. But JPM did not back down, and thus got "grassed". http://www.aqva14.dsl.pipex.com/ukf1/Imola_04_Montoya_vs_MSchumacher_Replays.mpg
I copied this from www.f1.com "Tellingly, while Schumacher and Button set the fastest two laps, the Renaults were next before Ralf Schumacher and Montoya took fifth and sixth respectively. Michael did 1m 20.411s on lap 10; Button 1m 21.201s on lap 28; Alonso 1m 21.650s on 59; Trulli 1m 21.666s on 11; Ralf 1m 21.689s on 30 and Montoya 1m 21.870s on 27. Rubens Barrichello was seventh fastest on 1m 21.873s on lap 31, and the final runner in the 21s was Takuma Sato with 1m 21.929s on lap 44. Some food for thought there." MS was 0.8 seconds faster in the race than Button, and more than 1.0 seconds per lap faster than anyone else. What MS brings to the package is the ability to run at qualifying pace for the whole friggen race. No other driver brings this kind of game to the party. Again from www.f1.com: "I just think they are a long way in front of anyone at the moment. Michael was 27s in front of me before he started slowing down. It is a huge gap considering I was leading for the first nine laps of the race. " This 27 seconds represents averaging 0.5 seconds per lap faster than everyone else. So far this year, MS has shown the ability to lap up into 6th place if he wanted to continue running away and really showing what kind of car Ferrari has developed. Racers are NOT supposed to slow down in F1, they are supposed to be chased to the very finish line and win by tenths if not hundredths. If I were Barrichello I would ask to be fired after a performance such as San Marino.
Mitch, YOu have to remember that running in traffic will always cause you to have the slower lap times. Once you are in front you can sail away until you get into the backmarkers and have to work thru them. When two drivers start dueling it out both will actually slow down and allow those in front to drive away. It is only reasonable that Rubens time would have been somewhat slower. And I do agree with you that he is not the driver of Michaels stature or JPM's aggressiveness but he is still a very good and consistent driver. I never raced anything the quality of F1 but I did race professional MX for factory Kawasaki and I can tell you that if I got the lead it was he*l for those behind me to get past. And I loved it when they began to try to pass each other. It meant I had clear sailing ahead of me. My lap time would be considerably better than the times of those in 4th place and back. I believe this is true in any form of motorsport competition.
I have a tape, around here somewhere, of the F1 race where MS got his first podium -- it was only his third race, I think. Senna, MS, JPM, Alonso, etc., were drivers that jumped directly into competitive seats -- cars that could win if the driver gave 110% of what any other driver did. Rubens, Mika, Sato, .. and Jensen, have "paid their dues" driving cars that couldn't have won even with rocket packs bolted on. I'm guessing that this makes a difference in driver attitude and aggressiveness. I saw some rather blatant comings together between Senna and Mansell, in the late '80s, because Senna simply couldn't accept that he was not going to beat a Williams, that year. (This was the year when many races finished with only the Williams cars on the lead lap. Now that's a dominant year.) The "crash or win" attitude seems, to me, to be more suited to Nascar than to a venue like F1. But, as you say, the willingness to take the big chances and chop the suey does seem a common factor separating the champions from the "nice guys". C'est la guerre.
Although this discussion comes from a bit further back, when I saw the post-race interview I thought that MS had to hold back tearing JPM apart. After JPM made his comments MS seemed PISSED to me. But then he was asked a question that he couldn't really respond negatively towards JPM in... just my opinion.
JPM is a complete whiner. Hey Juan, go out and win six (and most likely seven) world championships. until then, SHUT THE F*** UP!!!
Looks like they JPM was ahead pre-apex, even at apex and then fell back some and MS continued racing as usual. There was a collision. I don't know the standard racing procedure for that...anyone care to comment? Although position is equal at apex it looks fairly apparent that Schumacher had a faster velocity...does that factor in? How could MS "not see him"?
Just like I said. JPM divebombed MS trying to get him to lift ... MS didn't flinch, and JPM got what he deserved.
That particuar hairpin is a late apex, and considering the adjustment MS had to make after JPM nearly go into him at turn in, I'm not suprised MS went out that far. Either way, it looked like a race incident to me. JPM's whining doesn't change the fact that he attacked MS before the corner, JPM thought he could dive bomb into MS, rattle his cage, get him to lift and make the pass. MS didn't see it that way, and kept his line. JPM over drove the corner, and lost position... end of story.
I thought it was a racing incident as well and not worth assessing blame either way. I've gone thru lots of turns where there's only one line at speed, no matter how wide the pavement!!!!! If you don't believe it, you try it, and end up out there with JPM!! Thankfully there WAS grass! In Monaco, he would have been showering early! Personally, I was upside down in a pile of tires! LOL!!! It wasn't even my fault, the two guys ahead of me were the non-believers! I never lifted either! I'll back Schumi on this one for once!
"Just like I said. JPM divebombed MS trying to get him to lift ... MS didn't flinch," Hubert. Man, you called it, all this transpired before the apex. I think MS says he didn't see JPM because he knows that gets under his skin. How could you not see ME! ME! ME! Thanks for posting that clip, it shows just how much goes on in a split second, run it slowly and watch the steering wheel and the front wheels, superhuman, really. I really like that phrase someone used earlier, BMW lawnmower.
And would have taken the next 6 cars out with the wreckage he left on the road after bouncing off the armco.
Interesting vid. I agree that JPM got beat. But watch MS hands on the exit. He does a text book left turn. Then it looks like he does one little jog to the right to give JPM a little Attaboy. All's fair, babe.
Alan, I'm assuming from your past posts that you have had a little seat time, yes? Tell us some stories...
Yes, but it doesn't hurt as much to totally destroy one of these!!!! LOL Image Unavailable, Please Login
Not your wallet, I mean.... you personally pay a MUCH higher price, for mistakes! LOL!! I've run the Houston Mayor's Cup Mini Grand Prix race six years, Dr. Tax. And four of those years we were a support race for the Texaco Grand Prix of Houston as well, (see profile pic). We've started at the pole, we've won, we've lost....we've blown engines and rolled to a stop and walked home. Kinda gives you perspective, as you watch the real guys!!! (Poor Kimi, this year!) I've raised $68,000.00 for Child Advocates here in Harris County though, and I'm very proud of that! We'll talk, sometime!!!
The kids watching just THINK I'm Schumi, LOL! Back now, to the Imola discussion....... PM if you need more info. We raced in Lafayette, LA once. That was fun! They don't watch too much F1 there, we were it!!!
