News

Concours-correct 330 2+2 Series II center console

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Smiles, Feb 26, 2004.

  1. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    14,889
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Matt F
    I have a 330 GT 2+2 Series II, with the upright center console. Currently, the cigarette lighter is right in the middle of that upright, with the window switches mounted on either side of the lighter hole, and a bank of toggle switches above that.

    I'm planning on moving the windows switches to the horizontal surface of the center console, on either side, and just ahead of, the shifter boot. (A period-correct radio will go where those items are now.) That's the way it's pictured in Keith Blueme's book Original Ferrari V-12. Is this correct?

    Does anyone have a picture of a Series II interior, with some detail of the center console? In particular, where should the cigarette lighter go? What kind of emblems were found anywhere on the center console? Also, were all toggle switches above the radio face the same? And, finally, are there any fasteners visible on the horizontal surface, and if so, what are they?

    I'd really appreciate any help on getting my interior back to original specs.

    Thanks in advance,

    Matt
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
    17,972
    San Marino, CA
    Full Name:
    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    Matt, here are some close-up shots of what appears to be an original series II car:

    dash

    console

    I hope these are helpful.
     
  4. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,110
    Central NJ
    Matt,

    Wayne's pictures represent what my console and dash look like except the radio is a little lower on the console face of my car. Also, my window switches are mounted on the doors (drivers side has dual controls and passenger side has single control). My car is a pretty early series 2, sn. 7919, with a dash similar to the interim cars. Later cars had a different layout, see the "spotters guide" section of Tom Yang's website for more information.

    Good Luck with your car!

    Art S.
     
  5. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    14,889
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Matt F
    Thanks for your replies, Wayne and Art. I really appreciate it.

    My dash has Lucas toggle switches, not the rocker switches.

    Here's the only image I have of my dash right now.
    http://pstr-g01.ygpweb.aol.com/data/00E/1E/D7/D6/0E/82hF6q-w2CdChn2R9Z1BnBqxRSP7jSwL0300.jpg

    And here's a quote from Keith Blueme's book:
    "On Series II cars a centre console runs up into the lower edge of the facia and the main toggle switches are mounted on its upper face. Below the swtiches is a blanking plate for the optional radio, with a crossed flag Ferrari/Pininfarina badge under it." (p.54)

    I wish I had a scanner so that I could show the corresponding picture, but it looks a lot like my dash. Except I don't have the radio blanking plate.

    --Matt
     
  6. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,110
    Central NJ
    Matt,

    I've never seen this setup. I've only seen the rocker switches mounted similarly to Wayne's picture or to the left of the steering wheel on later 330 2+2s. I wonder if yours was done differently at the factory or modified by a previous owner. What is the SN# of your car?

    Art S.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,950
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Richard Wallace
    The pictures I have from the origial Ferrari V12 guide by Keith Bluemel - shows what Waynes posts Shows...

    Rich
     
  9. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    14,889
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Matt F
    Richard, take a look at the second picture on page 53. That picture clearly shows a similar arrangement, with two additional toggle switches on the driver's side. Do you happen to have a scanner?

    Art, car is s/n 9453.
     
  10. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,110
    Central NJ
    Matt,

    I saw your post on Tom's site, nice car.

    The interior pictured in Wayne's post is correct for interm cars and early series 2. You have a fairly late series 2 330 2+2. By this time the rocker switches were moved to the left of the steering wheel see site: http://www.tomyang.net/cars/ferrari.html go to the 'Ferrari 330GT 2+2 Spotter's Guide' and you will see a picture 7537's interior which is similar to Wayne's pictures and one of 8755's interior. Unless you have some sort of one off interior, 8755's layout should be correct for your car.

    Are you planning on showing or driving the car?

    Art S.
     
  11. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    14,889
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Matt F
    Thanks, Art. I definitely plan on driving the car.

    Here's the quote from Keith Blueme's book again:
    "On Series II cars a centre console runs up into the lower edge of the facia and the main toggle switches are mounted on its upper face." It seems that in later cars there are toggle switches, not rocker switches. And they're located on the center console, not on the rolled upholstery of the dash.

    Here's the picture that goes along with the text:
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,110
    Central NJ
    Matt,

    I stand corrected. In the Kieth Blueme picture, there appears to be a mondern radio and I couldn't see a cigar lighter. I guess that means your car could be original and correct as it sits. I guess the next question is how badly do you want to listen to a radio while driving?

    When I bought my car there was a gaping hole where ther radio once was. The original radio was found in a previous owner's garage and has since been restored and reinstalled. My Blaupunct still has tubes in it so the sound is "period-correct".

    If you are going to cut up your dash, I think I still have some Becker Europas on the shelf.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  14. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,950
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Richard Wallace
    You are correct... I do see that on Page 53... 54 didn't have the correct agle to see two toggles on that side.

    I do have a scanner - and I will work to post them tomorrow.
     
  15. treue

    treue Formula Junior

    Jan 22, 2004
    276
    Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Tom Treue
    Matt:

    Check out: http://www.330register.com/Images/photos/factory_10_1000.jpg.
    The pic appears to be a factory b+w photograph (see other pix in that group that are obviously of the factory). The pic above shows the window switches on the driver's side door panel of a 2+2 (note the factory? shipping plastic on the seats, so the car had to be brand new). In the group of pix is a light-colored Series I and a dark-colored Series II. The interior shot is of a (the?)dark-colored car. The inside door panel is laid out just like my Series II, although my switches are currently on the horizontal part of the console, next to the shift lever. The photos were supplied by Paul Gilpatrick who administers the 330 Register and is one of the more Ferrari-knowledgeable people in the world.

    Tom
     
  16. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,110
    Central NJ
    Tom,

    I'm enjoying this thread!

    In my opinion, the Black and White picture is of an early series 2 interior similar to my car (late '65 production). The window switch setup is the same as well (two switches in driver’s door, single switch in passenger door). The next design change had the rocker switches move to the left of the steering wheel (on LHD cars) and then on the very late cars, the switches seem to be of a similar type to the 365 2+2s with the window controls on the center console. In case you are interested the window switches on my car are made in Turin, if you are interested I can check the brand.

    I hope you don't mind me chiming in with my two cents.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  17. whturner

    whturner Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2003
    315
    Western Pennsylvania
    Full Name:
    Warren Turner
    Hi:

    Visit my Web Page for a picture of mine - it is original as you might infer by checking out the history on the 330GT web site; it is serial # 10069

    http://home.alltel.net/whturner/67%20Interior%20view.jpg

    I would not bet my last nickle that any "Correct" layout is the only arrangement which was sent out the door.

    Cheers
    Warren Turner
     
  18. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    14,889
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Matt F
    Thanks for the picture, Tom.

    I've e-mailed Tom Yang and Kerry Chesbro, and should also e-mail Paul Gilpatrick. From the responses I've received so far, and from combing over pictures on Kerry Chesbro's site, it seems that Bluemel's description is of an original car, but it's an exception to the rule. As Warren succinctly said, "I would not bet my last nickle that any 'Correct' layout is the only arrangement which was sent out the door."

    Art, are the switches made by Ducellier? (Although that certainly doesn't sound like a Turin firm...)

    So: I suppose I should change my original question to:
    Has anyone seen another dash layout as described (and photographed) in Keith Bluemel's book?
     
  19. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,110
    Central NJ
    Matt,

    I drove the car to work today. When I saw your email, I made as mental note to check the window switches - I forgot. I'm pretty sure they are marked "MICROTECNICA TORINO". I'll confirm this next time I go for a drive.

    Regarding "correctness" I agree with Warren as well. The beauty for hand built cars is that even though there was a production run, each car is unique.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  20. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    9,384
    predestined
    Full Name:
    Scott
    #17 jsa330, Mar 6, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Matt:

    Probably irrelevant to your car, but this is interior fix I did for my 330 2+2 S1:

    Tan carpets - cheap, someone replaced originals before I bought car.

    Red snapin mats - I had these made after removing front floor carpets and replacing old rubber pedal boots, or pedal gaiters if you prefer.

    Console: I replaced carpet covered homemade console with 70's AM/FM cassette with this 330 console I bought through Ferrari market letter; vertical wood panel I made and finished, crossed flags came from a guy I met thru an ebay deal - 60's orginal, cost me $30.00! Ashtray came with console and replaced badly dented one. Next project is to get rid of speakers with 6" diameter black plastic covers set into panels next to rear seats. I drive my Ferrari to get away from crap on the radio - engine sounds too good!
    Since mine is a very early production 330 I have no power switches.

    Front seat leather was bad both sides - I had a cheap recover job that I regret, but it will last until I decide to redo the interior. I also replaced shot driver's seat tracks with good used ones from Fred Petroske.

    Old rubber shift boot and leather gaiter covering it were replaced along with leather boot on handbrake lever.

    Shift knob is from a 60's Corvette I had - I sleeved knob threads with hard nylon bushing material and screwed it onto shift lever - it "self threaded." My original plastic one is safely put away (did you see how much an identical 330 knob went for on ebay recently?)

    Total cost was about $1200.00 + my time.

    I don't know what my point is, other than that these were handmade limited production cars and that a bit of creative variation in details is OK for a driver, as long as it's not outrageous and is in the Ferrari design spirit.

    If I ever go the restoration route, then I'll be looking at what's required for
    concours, but even then it will entail making my own educated judgements as to what's right.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    14,889
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Matt F
    Great work there, Spook. I'm jealous of your $30 original emblem find.

    I completely agree with your philosophy. Even though the title of this post asks for concours-correct info, my car is--and will be--driven, which is what Ferrari intended.
     
  22. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    14,889
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Matt F
    An additional question: Is there any padding underneath the leather on the surfaces of the center console faces? Maybe something like 5-6mm foam? Or is it fairly hard, without padding.

    Thanks again for all the responses,

    Matt
     
  23. SMS

    SMS F1 Veteran

    Jan 7, 2004
    5,793
    Indy
    Full Name:
    Bill S.
    Here's a shot of our old series II for your comparison. Sorry it's so dirty!

    Note the lighter is behind the ashtray.
     
  24. JonBrent

    JonBrent Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    732
    Heaven on Earth
    Full Name:
    JB
    Matt,

    I just took a look at my console (it's the blue 'interim' one on Tom Yang's site), and it feels like the leather is glued directly to the fiberglass, no padding. The radius on the edges is in the fiberglass. Also, my console does not have the step in Bill's picture, I suppose as the lighter is in the switch cluster in the center console. The radio cutout was done in the console fiberglass at the factory, as the leather is fed through it. Under the radio, there is an oval hole for a speaker, which was then covered by a metal plate with the flags in it. Hope this helps.

    Bill,

    What serial number is your car - it looks like my 330 had the same silver with blue colors your car has. Very nice.

    Cheers,
    Jonathon
     
  25. whturner

    whturner Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2003
    315
    Western Pennsylvania
    Full Name:
    Warren Turner
    The layout you show is the same as mine - The picture of I referenced did not show the lighter position, the seat back was in the way.

    http://home.alltel.net/whturner/

    OT - but you can also find out about 1947 Fords, and in spite of the mass production status we have the same problems trying to find out what is "Correct"
     
  26. SMS

    SMS F1 Veteran

    Jan 7, 2004
    5,793
    Indy
    Full Name:
    Bill S.

    Jonathon,
    Sorry, I missed your question. Serial # 9727.

    Bill
     
  27. Simon1965

    Simon1965 Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2011
    250
    HKSAR
    Full Name:
    Simon
    #24 Simon1965, May 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  28. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
    1,058
    London. UK.
    Full Name:
    Paul Baber
    100% Correct........ and I would go one step further and say that in general no cars were identical.....When they were, it was sheer coincidence. With regard to Keith's book, I helped him compile the photos. Many were taken from my current stock at the time and from other dealers. It was very much a case of finding examples of each tipo. It also highlights the danger of committing 'fact' to print.
     

Share This Page