Concours Prep

There are so many low mileage 5 year old 550's out there...aren't they ALL concourse except the afore mentioned Tubi? I would think the winner is chosen on the lack of water spots on the tires. A pro detail is a must on a "new" car since there can't be that much else to choose from.

Ken

 

Their rules for judging basically say the car should not be 'overly polished / cleaned'. If you do your own detailing and the car looks clean but maybe a little dust on the engine from a recent drive, I think that would be what is considered normally cleaned. The engine compartment should not look dressed up beyond how it appeared from the factory. The number of points taken off is small, assuming you don't have many areas for them to deduct from. The basic thrust of the judging is toward the original condition.
BT

 

I asked a judge about the "clean" factor once, and he said something like. The car should be clean but look like it has been driven. He said he hates seeing dirty cars that look like their owner didn't car and just entered it into the judging for kicks. So make sure its clean, but also enjoy your drive to the show. And you'll probably be fine cleaning it yourslef if that's what you always do.

 

Personally, I think that judging cars newer than, say, 25 years is dumb. But what do I know?

What I have been told in the past is to deduct points for any non-original part on a newer Ferrari. This can even include bras or clear plastic. However, I have never heard of anyone losing points for having non-original air in their tires.

So yes, you will get a haircut for having a Tubi. But, please, don't take it off. It ain't worth it.

Dale

 

I agree, but I know people with cool cars like to show them off, and 25 years is a long time to wait! just don't get POed if your car loses because it's too clean or not clean enough. I mean really, is this any way to judge a car show?????

Older cars, especially rarer ones, are such a challenge to get running well let alone be original that it's more interesting to me to look at them in a car show than the new cars that are factory fresh. My car isn't C and I don't want it to be, but it's original where it counts and is an honest example of a 34 year old Lotus. I felt cheated when I lost to an out-of-the-box Esprit with cool paint the last show I went to, but such is life and I suppose the Esprit guy felt like he accomplished something by just showing up.

For the record, it WAS cool paint though! *S*

Ken

 

I judged 550s at last year's Reading Concours (I had a 328 GTB entered), and my judging partner and I were very disappointed in the preparation of the entered 550s - meaning little if any obvious preparation on the most basic areas. Dirty carpets, obvious dirt on the body, wheels, and tires, unattended to road rash, trunks full of weekend luggage, shopping bags, etc. Enthusiasts of the marque no doubt, but serious concours entrants they were not. If you want to see a hotly contested class with superbly prepared cars, the 308s and 328s are it. Yes, originality is VERY important, but if you present a car for judging that is in the cosmetic condition of your commuter car it will not get anyones attention or time. There was one entrant who 'hounded' me about how much he drives and tracks the car (in an obvious attempt to deflect concerns about its cosmetic condition). I chose to be polite, but what I really wanted to say to him is that this was a CONCOURS event, not an event for the most tracked or commuted in example that had the wear and tear to show it. This year I'll have a 550 entered. I suspect - and hope - that the national event will have a better class of 550s.

 

Where's Mike Charness? He's the man when it comes to concours - link to a writeup on the FCA site that has tons of good info:

http://www.fca-se.org/concours.htm

And yes, 2001 isn't historic, but the detailing work that goes into concours preparation has always interested me. Tiger, post pics if you end up doing this, and good luck.

 

Stephen:

If you really want to know about concours judging, hop on a plane to San Francisco for a seminar on Feb. 25 with Ed Gilbertson, who wrote the rulebook. I believe he coined the phrase, "Ferraris are meant to be driven." Someone correct me if I am wrong, but rock chips are not a deduction for this reason.

http://www.ferraripacific.org/comevents/images/FCA-PR-JudgingSeminar-Feb-06.pdf

 

in my experience, the presence of 'touched up' stone chips is fine, but unattended wounds are not. Again, a concours event - regardless of the marque - is not about displaying cars in a driven hard, hung up wet to dry condition. If that was the point, there would be no need to go to a 'concours' event, one could just go and look at cars at a track event. JMHO and YMMV

 

I count as one of my fondest memories walking past a Daytona as it was being judged in New Orleans during the FFQC. The car had bug splats and what not all over it because the owner had the freaking nerve to drive the damn thing all the way from California. Even worst, he drove it home!

Malcolm, rising a martini glass, this one is for you!

You set the standard for the rest of us to follow.

Dale

 

I have heard the gospel of Ed Gilbertson many times and I hope my words are an accurate interptetation. I have judged at Cavallino the last several years and will be showing my 328 GTB at this years FCA.

The concept of a Ferrari Concours (as opposed to many other marques) is preservation. Therefore originality, authenticity, condition with a minor emphasis on cosmetics are the order. I would like to see a car that has obviously cleaned prior to the event but dont care if it got a little dirty while driving to the event. Sounds like you dont need a professional detail.

Your 5 year old car should be eligible but you may want to check with the chief judge.

About one point will be deducted for the Tubi so if you think you car otherwise is at least a 95.5 car I wouldnt remove it.

There should not be any penalty for evidence of use so one should not deduct for minor wear or paint chips. Mr Gilbertson might say to ADD points for chips as he believes the cars should be driven!

One final point: You compete only against your self. If all scores in your class are >95 point then all get platinum.

I hope this helps,

Dan

 

Dan, all this sounds great in theory, but in practice... That is another story.

For example, who is to say what is original in these old cars? The Mad Elf Tom S is probably the world's number-one expert on tool kits. He will tell you originality is a pipe dream. Back in the day, who knew? Luigi used whatever was in the parts bin on any given day. And tool kits? Give me a freaking break. They just threw whatever was lying around in the trunk, and if the guys on the dock didn't steal it, the owner probably threw it away because they were all pieces of junk.

Personally, I believe that the judging should be totally subjective. That is, what car looks the best? What car gets your motor running? What car do you talk about later at the bar?

If I had to chose between a totally 1000% original, 1,000 mile, 412i and a ratty Cal Spider with wrong everything, the Spider would win every time.

Dale

PS And don't get me started about those guys in the restoration bidness who are really the ones driving all this.

 

I have been a judge at the Meadowbrook Ferrari event , and we have used a different set of criteria for judging the cars . We are judging on "beauty" and not whether or not the car has the "correct" muffler bearings , etc.Every show may use different criteria to judge the cars by , but we let everyone know up front that the evaluation is for the beauty of the car , hence the "concours" designation.Certainly originality plays a part in the overall score as such , but in the end it's the subjective opinion of the team of judges that make the call.
It's my understanding that the National Ferrari Club event is judged in the more traditional manner whereby points are taken away from a 100 pt total , and originality is paramount.

 

This speaks to the point that a car leaving the factory may not be a 100 point car. You may have to find out what was supposed to be in the tool kit and try to find the missing tools.

Lotus was (is?) famous for each car being different. Mine in particular is a curious blend of a Twin Cam and a Twin Cam Special. I'm sure vintage Ferraris were all somewhat unique too which makes one hope the judges are really experts in the cars they are looking at.

Ken

 

That's a car show, not an FCA Concours.

 

I've been judging for the last few years and would agree that in the interest of preservation, originality and authenticity are more important than overall cleanliness. Having said that, I know that I spend the week before any event that I've entered my car in just cleaning and tweaking. And then I do it again before the judging starts to make sure I've cleaned up the dirt accumulated from that morning's drive.

I can't tell you how many times I've come across stuff in the boot and piled on the seats, along with obvious dirt and staining that could easily be cleaned. As a judge, this automatically tells me the entrant is not serious, especially when others show up with immaculate cars. Its one thing to attend an event for the love of the marque and for the good time, but it takes a commitment in time and effort to keep a car prepared to a certain standard. Funny thing is, you begin to notice patterns with the same owners every year, the serious contenders whose cars show it, and those that just are not prepared to the same level.

I remember losing points my first year for a FCA decal...

I was in Sarasota this past weekend and judged at the FOC event. I found it a bit more casual than what I'm accustomed to (no deductions for incorrect valve stem caps, missing books/tools, etc.). The 308 class had a fiberglass car in very good condition but modified, and a Euro QV that was original but showing signs of wear. They both scored a 97.5.

 

there are many categories of (clean) some judges will deduct points for a pro detailed ferrari, on more than one occasion clients of mine were snubbed because the condition of thier car was TOO good . the judging is always a subjective thing , as for going for a platinum award it is the details that are not obvious that will bring the award home. trim around the windows, lower rocker areas, wheel wells, lughole areas, inside the mirror housing, obscure areas of the engine( 550& 575 applicable where the spark plugs affix valve cover, the ferrari lettering on the valve cover etc..... a concourse detail , at least how i do it means seats come out , wheels off, and machine buffing the paint for multiple DAYS, especially a black, tdf ,pozzi, colors. anal people should be rewarded at events like this, but sometimes that is not the case. all you can do is prepare the best you can, and have fun with your car.

 

I can honestly say i've never heard of anyone's car being judged as TOO good !! I know the entrants at the Porsche and Corvette shows sometimes border on the obsessive , but hey , to each his own.The whole idea is to enjoy and celebrate the Marque , and let others enjoy the beauty of the various cars . Many cars are truly examples of rolling sculpture that can be driven and enjoyed.But the way i see it , if you want to show it at an event for judging , it ought to be as clean as you can get it within reason. If yours is not , the entrant next to you probably is .