Concours Seminar - FOC - NorCal

Glad to see the F.O.C. is still active. They got swag?

Please post comments and pictures, Chris.

Thanks.

 

Does FOC use IAC/PFA judging guideline system or something else ?
Just curious.

 

If a judge incorrectly assesses a deduction you should immediately appeal to the Chief Judge who can correct an error.

Judges are very knowledgeable, but are human and can make a mistake. Even your mock judges may have approved something on your car that should have been a deduction.

Some day AI will take over and ChatGPT will accurately judge all our cars!

 

This is the 1st I've heard of FCA Monterey members going to FOC...and I was an FCA MRY member until it disbanded.

 

Thanks for reporting back.

AFAIK, judging corrections under IAC/PFA guidelines do not work that way.
Owner/presenter shouldn't even find out the specifics of any deductions during the day of the event, but can request copies of scoring sheets (related to their own car only) a week or two later and if any incorrect deductions are believed to be present, owner/presenter can appeal, but may have to provide proof.

 

yes. we are having a big cruise on sat.

 

Thats not correct. A great deal of discussion goes on, on the spot, especially if its correctable on the field. I have asked many time for an explanation of an item not strictly correct because depending on the situation it may not be a deduction.

You have spoken many times very authoritatively for someone who knows so little about the subject.

 

Well in your 1st line it isn't really supposed to work that way.

The Corvette club takes an entire day to judge a car. Porsche club has a mob judge a car. The FCA has 3 people judge a car and it is done in 15 minutes. We never expect every team to find every deficiency in every car in that time frame. We also never hear the judges side when some here say their car was judged wrong.
I have had many entrants insist it is supposed to be that way. Whatever. If requested I provide proof 100% of the time for the deductions my team makes but am requested to do so in a minority of cases. And yes, mistakes are made. We try to find them and make sure it does not happen again but we are so seldom informed we cannot fix what we are not informed about. At this point I personally go over every single score card from FCA National events looking for irregularities. But that never replaces being asked.

Some seem to feel this is an adversarial event. Nothing can be further from the truth. Our goal is to help in correcting things that are wrong if you have a desire to do so. I spend a great deal of time after the events providing proof if required or information if desired to those who request it.

 

Also it needs to be said, local events are locally controlled. Many state they are done to strict IAC/PFA guide lines and do not have enough experience to do so.
Dont conflate national events with local events.

 

Thanks for the clearing this.
Apparently I have been inadequately(?) instructed during FCA judges meetings and seminars I’ve attended.
OTOH, I’ve been aware of (15 min.) “field corrections” allowed for malfunctioning electrical/mechanical components, but that’s all.
Never encountered or heard of any “field corrections” allowed for incorrect items, but I guess anything’s possible.

 

You mean the same meetings I have attended and came away with a completely different message?

How many national level events did you judge at? Not a trick question.

 

Thanks for clarifying, and I have to apologize to TTR. I was thinking of Coppa Bella Machina judging when replying to Concours judging. In my first CBM judging the judge was making an honest mistake. I asked him to check and he followed up with who I assume was the Chief Judge. He came back and said no problem, the item was correct.

I have entered my 612 in two FCA Concours and two Coppa Bella Machinas. I can tell you all the judges and the Chief Judge were absolute professionals, cordial and contributed to a fantastic experience for me.

 

Not terribly surprising. CBM takes a lot of bodies. Some get drafted on short notice and since it is a simple function test it does not require a great deal of knowledge of a particular car. Either a light bulb works or it doesn't but there is sometimes confusion that needs to be handled.
It has become very popular and we are getting more cars through the process than ever before. Leslie has done a great job getting people to help. Many of the early car judges used to just disappear but they cannot refuse her.

 

Assuming you mean FCA, one.

Several FCA regionals + some non-FCA events using IAC/PFA and/or PB type guidelines.
Have also presented fozen or so cars, including Ferraris, for judging at many, although none at FCA Nationals.

But yes, there appears to be a lot of inconsistencies between events and guidelines, etc.

 

I said regionals and local events are run to their standards and no one else. Not a single one in the country has the personnel experienced and trained to do it to IAC/PFA standards. Don't conflate the two. They are done by local volunteers doing what they can. It has little relationship to the national events.
What I always find interesting is how many stand back and criticise yet never lift a finger to effect change. Local clubs reflect in a very real way the effort and quality of the people pitching in to make them work.

 

Brian, I would expect that you intend to include Cavallino and Pebble Beach as correctly following the IAC/PFA along with the FCA National.

 

Sort of. PB really follows their own standards. We give a great deal more latitude in cosmetics. At PB it is taken for granted the cars are not drivers but I think they are coming around to favor more originality and give some ground to that over perfection. I am never likely to be asked. I've pissed off a few of the wrong people.
When I was still on the board we were asked for an advisory vote. A very well known 1 of 2 car was being done by a very well known restorer. We agreed the nearly perfect original interior with some patina and slightly delaminated original glass was preferable in the interest of originality than to replace it all.

Also PB scoring picks a winner I believe.

So far Cavallino is the same but I sense changes are afoot. Time will tell. Tell you all about it in private some time.

Also it is reported Ferrari Club Australia uses the same system but it came to my attention recently they do not. They just think they do. They misunderstand a great deal.