Confirmation of 20 degrees past TDC | FerrariChat

Confirmation of 20 degrees past TDC

Discussion in '308/328' started by jdamon, Mar 13, 2017.

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  1. jdamon

    jdamon Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2015
    288
    Boston
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    I found this service bulletin when researching the proper amount of tension for the belts on a 4 valve 308. It states that the ideal place to set tension for belt is 20 degrees after TDC cyl 1 bank 1-4, and 20 degrees after TDC cyl 8 for the other bank. I would like to confirm where to measure the 20 degrees. This is measured on the crank balancer? Or on the cam itself? My inclination is the crank balancer, but figured I would open myself up to some ridicule just to make sure :). Thanks!

    http://ferrari.cdyn.com/service_bulletins/sb10-9.pdf
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Crankshaft (at the flywheel).
     
  3. jdamon

    jdamon Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2015
    288
    Boston
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    Thank you Steve!
     
  4. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 8, 2007
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    Mark W.R.
    Does anything like that exist for the 2V motors?
     
  5. gt500blue

    gt500blue Formula 3

    Oct 18, 2006
    1,851
    Texas
    Full Name:
    GT
    I just completed installing my new cam belts. I use the tension method by rotating the engine and watch for the stretcher (tensioner) to be at it's most extended position and then tighten the 19 mm bolt to 41 Ft-lb. I did this for both banks and they were at different amounts of turn on the crank of course. I too came across the same service bulletin and had the same question. I suppose 20 degrees past TDC for Cyl #1 is a simple as it sounds - rotate the the crank 20 degrees from TDC mark (I marked the harmonic balancer at #1 TDC. I must say that the stretcher was at a more extended position with the crank rotated about 90 degrees so I'm a bit concerned that the belt is too tight.

    Anyway, I can redo it from TDC #1 and go only 20 degrees. But how do I know when/where TDC is for #8 cyl in order to do the same for the other bank? I'm anxious to close it all back up and get it on the road. Thanks in advance!
     
  6. gt500blue

    gt500blue Formula 3

    Oct 18, 2006
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    bump... need to know how to check when Cyl #8 is TDC. Then I can rotate crank 20 degrees and tighten cam belt tension. Thanks for any help!
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    26,918
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    #7 Steve Magnusson, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
    No, it would actually be cylinder #5 to be analogous, but #5 & #8 are at TDC at the same time -- there are another set of marks on the flywheel (i.e., PM1-4 mark = TDC cyls #1 and #4; PM5-8 mark = TDC cyls #5 and #8).

    You did rightly -- tighten when the tensioner bearing plunger is at its maximum extension out of the body. IIRC, the "20 deg" is not only 20 deg past #1 TDC but also for the #1 TDC event that corresponds to #1 firing point. Were you on the correct revolution for that when you marked the harmonic balancer?
     
  8. gt500blue

    gt500blue Formula 3

    Oct 18, 2006
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    Texas
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    Thanks Steve... I don't know to be honest. I checked the flywheel and saw that the PM1-4 was lined up and I checked the cam marks looking through the oil filler and saw that they were lined up. I marked the harmonic balancer at that point for my own reference. Now I had cam gears marked (and locked) with a straight edge for reference. All stayed in time when i rotated after belts installed and locks removed.

    So are you saying that if I see the 2nd mark for TDC 5-8 on the flywheel and position the pointer to line up then I will be at #5 (and #8) TDC? I can't see marks on the cams since the covers are still on. So not sure if I need to rotate the crank more than the 90 degrees (that's the distance in degrees between the TDC mark for #1 and the TDC Mark for #5 on the photos of the flywheel I have seen. Am I making sense? I know that just because the TDC #1 mark on the flywheel lines up you still need to check the cam marks because you could be 180 deg out of phase. Same for TDC#5-8 I would assume. But are they in phase together so I would not have to make an additional rotation for #5-8?

    So I find TDC for #1, confirm with looking through oil filler for #1 TDC, then continue to rotate the crank another 90 degrees and line up the TDC #5-8 mark and good? Or will I be out of phase or something?

    Thanks so much!
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,918
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    Correct.

    Another way to check it on the 5-8 bank is (with the flywheel at the PM5-8 mark) take off the distributor cap and confirm that the distributor rotor is generally pointing at the contact in the dist cap holding the #5 spark plug wire.
     
  10. gt500blue

    gt500blue Formula 3

    Oct 18, 2006
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    That makes a lot of sense... thanks again for the help!
     

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