Hi Guys: I am confused about what the original part numbers should be for the Lucas 6RA relays on the "M" series Dino should be. What follows is the sources I have and their part numbers for the relays: 1) Official Ferrari maintenance and repair instructions, English translation by Angelo Wallace: -charging circuit relay: Lucas 33231 -headlights relay: Lucas 33213 -radiator cooling fans relay: Lucas 33213 2) Dino Compendium by Matthias Bartz -charging circuit relay: Lucas 33213 -headlights relay: Lucas 33231 -radiator cooling fans relay: Lucas 33213 3) Official Operating, Maintenance, and Service Handbook for car #01118 and on (the glovebox book) -charging circuit relay: Lucas 33252 -headlights relay: Lucas 33231 -radiator cooling fans relay: no part number listed You see there are discrepancies between these three sources and I am not sure why. It could be typographical mistakes by authors or part number supersession mistakes or something else. Has anyone noticed and researched this? I am trying to get my "M" car put back together and want to get it correct. The relays I have on my terminal board from when I disassembled my car are as follows: -charging circuit relay: Lucas 33293 -headlights relay: Lucas 33231 -radiator cooling fans relay: Lucas 33293 Does anyone have the definitive part numbers and supersessions of part numbers for these 3 relays?
I have 33293, 33231, 33232 on my M (1712), but can't vouch for whether or not they're original to the car which I acquired in 2010.
I remember when researching this that just about every M Series I looked at had different LUCAS part numbers on the relays and that in the end I assumed that any 6RA Lucas relay that did the job was fine. Here are the relays I have on M series 01464 Image Unavailable, Please Login
@Nuvolari believe it or not, they are different. The different variants are single contact vs dual contact, normally open vs normally closed vs changeover, coil resistance, etc. unfortunately I can’t find my Lucas catalog or I’d be able to tell you which one to use. I recall there are various sites for British cars that have more detail on the different models. One thing - you can disassemble and clean these relays so no need to trash them if they aren’t working.
https://www.lucasautomotive.com/globalassets/english/media-uploads-2020-02-21/lucas-relay-wallchart-en.pdf this may help, one thing i have learned about relays, they may look the same but there are very subtle differences as Mark rightly identifies. Tony
I get that they are all different but my experience shows no one sub-number to be correct. What of course does matter is the number of wires and the job that the particular relay does. My experience is that there are various relays that will fit the bill not that 'any' 6AL relay will do.
Hi Guys: Thanks for all your responses and comments. Jeez, I am doing yet another deep dive into a Dino mystery...I am looking for some old Lucas documentation that has the specs and schematics for all these old 6RA relays and have so far sent an e-mail to Lucas (in the UK) and e-mail to Rhode Island Wiring for a start. If you guys have any other ideas of where to look for this documentation let me know. I have also just bought the bodyparts book (big ouch) for the "M" car and when I get it hopefully this Scaglietti book will have some documentation on the relays. I have seen there is some discussion about these old 6RA relays on Jaguar and Rolls-Royce forums so I may see about posting if these guys are knowledgeable about the specs/schematics. Yes, it is entirely possible that more than one part number 6RA relay was/is acceptable for each of the 3 Dino circuits in question...but if this is the case, I still want to know exactly what the specs of the relay is that I am going to use (voltage, current capacity, continuous vs intermittent, normally open vs normally closed, single vs double contacts, etc) especially since I am probably going to have to use what I have or scrounge on the net since these relays are not readily available for sale. One other thing, from my notes before I disassembled my wiring is that the charging circuit relay is on the left, lights circuit relay in middle, and cooling fan relay is on the right...all as viewed facing terminal board...are your car's relays in the same order (I know it may not be important but I just want to get an idea if the factory had some consistency)?
For what it’s worth I have an E, not an M, but it’s a Euro with fan, horn, and light relays only. The relays are original to the car. The fan is a 6RA 33213 and the lights are 33231.
Hi Guys: I would just like to follow-up at this late date to let you know what I have found. I have not heard back from anyone after all these weeks who is a vintage Lucas relay "expert". I have bought the original Scaglietti bodyworks book. I have bought the original (Italian text) Ferrari repair manual. I have bought a selection of vintage Lucas relays and some modern replacement relays. From studying all this stuff, I believe the original specified relays are as follows: 1. Charging circuit relay originally was Lucas p/n 33252 2. Headlights circuit relay originally was Lucas p/n 33231 3. Radiator cooling fans relay originally was Lucas p/n 33232 The documented relays from the Scaglietti bodyworks book, Ferrari repair manual, and Ferrari operation manual have the following relays listed: 1. Charging circuit relay Lucas p/n 33252 2. Headlights circuit relay Lucas p/n 33231 3. Radiator cooling fans relay -no manufacturer part number- Historical discussion: So why is there no manufacturer part number specified for the radiator cooling fans relay? I do not know but I can make a guess. The Scaglietti bodyworks book lists these three relays as parts supplied to them by Ferrari for the build of the car body and wiring harness. There is specified a Ferrari part number for all 3 relays. I am guessing that Scaglietti received 2 different Lucas part numbers of relays for the radiator cooling fans relay and it caused them to be confused. These part numbers were 33232 and 33213. They discussed with Ferrari that there was problem in manufacture because the relays were mechanically and electrically different: the 33232 had 3 terminals and the 33213 had 4 terminals. The 33232 is "self-energizing" with the C2 and W2 terminals internally connected. The 33213 is not self-energizing and requires a external circuit wire (4th wire) for the relay to work. The Scaglietti guys told the Ferrari guys that it was a problem to use the 33213 relay because the wire harnesses were designed with only 3 wires to go to the relay. The Ferrari guys told them that when they supplied the 33213 relay, make a exernal jumper wire that goes from the C2 terminal of the relay to the W2 terminal of the relay and it will work just like the 33232 relay. This may have all come about because of Ferrari's inability to procure the 33232 relay when Scaglietti needed it for manufacture. So you see the wiring diagrams in the literature showing the external jumper on the radiator fan relay (33213) and you see a photo in the literature showing a relay with only 3 wires (33232). So, all this happened during manufacture (after the design and documentation phase were finished), the documentation ended up being incomplete and contradictory to some degree...this is all my personal theory, of course. Discussion for now: All these 4 Lucas relays (33252, 33231, 33213, 33232) used on the different series of Dinos are out of production now and you can only buy used ones. Lucas does sell new replacement relays that have a different appearance but will fit on the fusepanel (some with optional brackets). I do not believe Lucas has a replacement for the 33232 (3 terminal, self-energizing), but you can buy a replacement for the 33213 and 33252 which is the SRB111 and add the external jumper wire to make it work properly. Another out-of-production Lucas relay, 33293, is also interchangeable with the 33213 and 33252. All these relays are of the Lucas "6RA" series which are normally open, continuous duty, 12 volt, 20 amp rated relays with a coil winding that has a 70-80 ohm resistance. The 33231 relay (for the lighting circuits and more) has double pole contacts and this is probably because this relay serves more circuits that the other relays and the intent is to dissipate the additional contact heat (and hence wear). As Rob has noted, since they all have the same housing, and same electrical characteristics, they can be found to work interchangeably. I would like to add that from my playing around with these relays, they can be "counterfeited" by switching a housing (which has the part number) to a different baseplate which has the electrical parts.
