Confused!! Blown Head Gasket or What??? | FerrariChat

Confused!! Blown Head Gasket or What???

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Tifosi100, Oct 26, 2008.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Tifosi100

    Tifosi100 Karting

    Sep 26, 2006
    52
    Montana
    I have a 1980 308 GTSi, and about a month or so ago I was out for a drive and I went for a gear change (2nd to 3rd, about 6500 rpm) and then nearly instantly got a slightly odd engine note and then WAY reduced power, but it was running, I pulled her over and the engine seems OK, temps fine, oil pressure good, but just way low power. At first I thought clutch, but just doesn't seem to be that, and now it runs a little odd, doesn't idle quite right and little bit of white smoke. There is no water in the oil, or vice versa. I did a compression test on all 8 and turned out good , a minimum pressure of 150, and a max of 170. But something just isn't right. I wondering if I've blown a head gasket and it's just appearing in an odd form?? That or my only next guess is that I have a leak in the vacuum system somewhere and it's throwing the fuel and ignition timing all out of wack!! I don't know, and am wanting to hear any and all ideas from you all. Thanks - Nick
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,931
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Have you confirmed that you actually have ignition occuring on both banks?
     
  3. Tifosi100

    Tifosi100 Karting

    Sep 26, 2006
    52
    Montana
    I can't say that I have... What is the best way to perform a test for that? It doesn't sound like it's missing but... I open to any ideas at all? I did replace the timing belts, water pump, and distributor caps and rotors in the last few months, just for information sake... Thanks
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,931
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Just put a timing light on the spark plug wires to confirm if each cylinder is firing or not. Due to the mechanical architecture of your engine, if all 4 cylinders in one bank are not firing, it will still run perfectly smoothly (but with 1/2 power) -- and the design of your ignition system is such that there are several problems that can cause you to lose the ignition to a whole bank.
     
  5. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,831
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    How about a leak down test?
     
  6. desire308

    desire308 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2007
    1,433
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Peter W
    Sounds like it's only running on one bank...if it runs like a honda...check the spark. Also check your digiplex units under the trunk carpet, drivers side. Make sure they are plugged in nice and tight and clean the connectors. Also check the ground. This can be a typical problem with the ignition.
     
  7. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,831
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Lost power but compression are good on both banks?

    Sounds like ignition
     
  8. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    #8 2NA, Oct 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. Tifosi100

    Tifosi100 Karting

    Sep 26, 2006
    52
    Montana
    #9 Tifosi100, Oct 26, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2008
    Thanks guys, I'll give your suggestions a try, and report back... Thanks!

    BTW do these compression test #'s sound alright?

    Right Hand Bank (rear)
    1 - 158
    2 - 162
    3 - 150
    4 - 158

    Left Hand Bank (forward)
    1 - 160
    2 - 170
    3 - 157
    4 - 157
     
  10. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    There is nothing there that would make it run poorly. They dont sound great, but they arent awful. Not yet anyway.

    A leakdown test would be a very good starting point and may possibly rule out cylinder to cylinder leakage or perhaps a blown headgasket. When was it serviced last and were the heads ever retorqued? Valve timing, valve clearances, and loads of carbon buildup from poor running, all will effect a compression/leakdown test. I would nail down the ignition first to make sure thats not all your problem is, then start asking the larger questions. Its always best to run a compression test on a hot engine that been running well than one that was run out of tune.
     
  11. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,656
    The fabulous PNW
    Full Name:
    Han Solo
    #11 Spasso, Oct 26, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2008
    The three basics, Spark (existence and timing), Fuel (existence and pressure) , Air (A/F ratios).
    Check those FIRST before moving on to possible mechanical defects.
     
  12. Tifosi100

    Tifosi100 Karting

    Sep 26, 2006
    52
    Montana
    You guys nailed it!!! The rotor for the left/forward broke apart! No rotor, No Spark! Only running on 4. The part of that this which is really pissing me off is that this is the 5th (counting both banks) rotor that I've had break in the last 2 years. WTF?? What I assume were the originals came apart about 2 years ago, after it started running rough I found the rotors broken and the caps worn, so I replaced both rotors and caps, ran for about 5-6 months, started running poorly and I inspected again, this time the rotors were actually making contact withthe caps and had worn groves in the cap "points" and destroyed the rotors on both banks. Needless to say I was pissed and contacted T.Rutands who I bought them from who wouldn't even contact me back (I'll never use them again, or suggest to any one else to use them either!), so I bought a seconds set of caps and rotors and installed them, ran it until warm, round the block a time or two, then took it apart to inspect, and everyhting was fine so problem solved right? Well I guess not! What is happening here? the caps are dowel pinned, the rotors are keyed and them bolted into place, there's no adjustment to this right? Any ideas about this now? Thanks again, and any pointers about this one?
     
  13. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    It's no secret that the quality of replacement ignition parts (particularly aftermarket) is not great. Just fix it and move on.
     
  14. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul

    There is a difference between the carb and injected cars in either the cap or the rotor (but not both?). Contact Ricambi, I believe he will know how to solve your problem. There was a thread about this same problem once before, and I believe the same suspects were involved. Keep us posted.

    Part of the problem may also be that T.R. gets a lot of their parts from Superformance, and they list "dual distributor" caps and rotors, with no distiction between carbed or CIS cars. I guess for whats its cost you, added to what its going to cost, dealer prices for genuine OEM would have been a bargain?
     
  15. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 17, 2006
    4,078
    San Jose area
    Full Name:
    Brian Harper
    I'm not sure there would be enough slop to cause this even if they were shot, but are the bearings in the distributor ok, espcially the outboard one?
     
  16. Tifosi100

    Tifosi100 Karting

    Sep 26, 2006
    52
    Montana
    Thanks for the input guys, as far as finding parts are there any OEM caps and rotors available anymore? Guess I've not found any, that's why I went with aftermarket. I thought about the bearings as well but I think that the camshaft would have to thrust in an axial direction to cause the damage I'm seeing, is that even possible?? Either way I had another rotor and replaced it last night and now she's running on all 8 now, a very good sign! I want to change the oil and plugs just to eliminate any gas in the oil issues that could have come up and any fouled plugs, so things are getting better. Thanks, and as always the help is appreciated. - Nick
     
  17. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,406
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Use our sponsor Ricambi although TRutlands has been around FOREVER and is normally quite adequate on tune up service parts....but IIRC there's a "bad run" of rotors out there that are "that much" too long which certainy does sound like your "cap grooving " problem.......

    So as said try to correct the rotors, (Caps are way expensive, you can rebuild them you know...)

    Whenn was the last time your distributors were calibrated and rebuilt??

    If a bushing was way worn out on the shaft, I suppose it could float around breaking rotor contacts but hard to believe you wouldn't notice some symptoms from THAT!

    On the upside your heads are still okay....:rolleyes:
     
  18. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,406
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    No, your camshaft will not be floating around, not at all.........:)
     
  19. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,406
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    #19 BigTex, Oct 27, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
    I think an OEM cap from ReOriginals is about $425 each.........:D

    Thanks for this thread, I've had a hard day at the office,.....man, folks are so EXCITABLE these days.......

    I recall my car "single banking" and blowing the headers apart, the whole thing was on fire.......
     
  20. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
    1,426
    Tequesta, FL
    Full Name:
    Paul Delatush
    I would image it is getting cold in Montana, so why not park the car for awhile,pull the distributors off and make sure they're OK, especially the shaft bearing / bushing / housing? Good time to get them calibrated, as well.
     

Share This Page