Consignment dealer becomes registered owner w/o title or POA | FerrariChat
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Consignment dealer becomes registered owner w/o title or POA

Discussion in '360/430' started by daveyator, Mar 8, 2017.

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  1. daveyator

    daveyator Formula Junior

    Jun 10, 2014
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    Dave B
    #1 daveyator, Mar 8, 2017
    I'm sure your all sick of hearing Dave whine about how his car isn't selling (see some of my other threads and replies) and all that but I've decided to keep my car. So here's what happened when I went to get my car back from the dealer. I grab my plate and notice the tags are expired. Thinking I had missed my renew notice I go to DMV prior to picking up my car thinking I can just pay the tags. DMV tells me that there's a lien on the car and that I'm not the registered owner, the consignment dealer is. They tell me this was done in June of 2016 when I dropped off the car for sale. Hmm. The ONLY document I've signed is the basic consignment contract. I've signed NO power of attorney type forms and certainly have not signed over the clear title and I retain it to this moment. I paid cash for the car over two years ago so there should be no liens or anything on record. Naturally I get to the dealer to see whats whats and he says that the finance company puts liens on the cars to set them up for leasing. He also says there's no way they're the registered owner. He gives me a (I'm in California) notarized lien satisfied DMV form and says take this to DMV and that should clear the title. DMV says that indeed takes care of the lien but that the dealer is still the registered owner of the car. They literally have to transfer the title back to me. Oh yeah and also the car has to be smogged due to the ownership change(no small deal in the Ferrari world). So I'm upset for several reasons. The need to smog of course as I did it last year and should have been good for 2, this SNAFU will cause an additional ownership change on the cars record, and finally how the hell can a dealer (or anyone for that matter) assume ownership of a vehicle without a power of attorney form or a signed over title?
     
  2. efg2014

    efg2014 Formula Junior

    Sep 14, 2014
    657
    Northern California
    #2 efg2014, Mar 8, 2017
    Dave, sounds like a mess. The only way the dealer has the title is :

    a) You signed it over
    b) They forged your signature.

    If it isn't a or b then there is a chunk of information missing from your description.

    --good luck
    -kim
     
  3. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

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    #3 Sean F., Mar 8, 2017
    It sounds like you need to go beyond the teller at the DMV and call the state to get this sorted out. I had trouble with the local DMV on a car and a phone call to the state cleared things up.
     
  4. Drestless

    Drestless Formula 3

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    #4 Drestless, Mar 8, 2017
    If you have AAA membership, go there and request assistance. They do DMV services there like in the DMV office but better.

    In my experience, their more helpful and willing to go the extra mile to assist in sorting out issues and explain what's going on.

    DMV is government and you are not a customer to them. You can complain all you want and most of the time they wont be phased. Why? because their not going to lose anything. Your not a customer. In AAA, your the customer so you have more leverage and their more willing to do the extra mile to keep you happy because YOU are a customer there.

    Give that a shot if you have a AAA membership.
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #5 Rifledriver, Mar 8, 2017
    This is the best advice.

    California DMV offices all have a dealers window and they just make things happen, not always to the letter of the law.

    Just fix it and move on.
     
  6. Graz

    Graz Formula 3

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    #6 Graz, Mar 8, 2017
    They essentially stole your vehicle. I would contact the police and put a police report and hold them accountable. If you have the title in hand showing its your car then its your car. Dealerships like this are the worst form of you know what. There's absolutely no reason why you should have to go through this nonsense.
     
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #7 Rifledriver, Mar 8, 2017
    Good luck with that.

    They gave the car back, they gave the paperwork back and the rest will be explained away as a clerical error and there is zero evidence that says otherwise.
     
  8. rennspeed

    rennspeed Formula Junior
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    #8 rennspeed, Mar 8, 2017
    Who's the dealer?
     
  9. bart12

    bart12 Formula 3

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    #9 bart12, Mar 8, 2017
    Im curious who is the dealer so that we can stay away from them.
     
  10. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
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    Apr 4, 2010
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    #10 ar4me, Mar 8, 2017
    Since the consignment place is now the registered owner, do you have to pay ~9% sales tax to get it back? :) ;) Which place did this?
     
  11. daveyator

    daveyator Formula Junior

    Jun 10, 2014
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    Dave B
    #11 daveyator, Mar 8, 2017
    Thanks for the replies. The AAA DMV is who I consulted and yes they are helpful. I will reveal the dealer but I feel its necessary to give them a chance to fix this before I out them as good or bad. If any of you feel like there's a chance your doing business with them in So Cal pm me and I'll be glad to tell you. Here's the latest. The dealer says they never wanted to be, and never were as far a they knew the actual registered owner. There was a partial (for lack of a better word) registration and lien created to facilitate selling the car should that occur. The finance company apparently took the next step like the car had been sold to the dealer and did whatever it is they do when they sell a car and thats how the registration to the dealer got created. The dealer's DMV guru claims they can fix this with a "statement of error" form amoung other things and virtually reverse this. I'm told they should get me new tags in a few days and they will overnight them to me when they get them. They also say there should not be another change of ownership simply because none happened. Finally they are going to pay my late penalty since I wasn't able pay on time even if I wanted to. My wife says I'm too trusting and she may be right but they just don't seem like they're trying screw me. They too said that if they were trying to keep the car they would have kept the car , not give it back. Brian is right. It seems like just an egregious paperwork error. Being a path of least resistance guy I'll give them a chance to fix this. I still wonder though how a finance company has the power to change the registered owner without title or POA.
     
  12. daveyator

    daveyator Formula Junior

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    #12 daveyator, Mar 8, 2017
    No. In fact I would have to pay (but the dealer is going to) the late penalty on the tags which is actually comforting since that indicates a continuous registration.....at least as I said above according to their DMV person. We will see.
     
  13. 67bmer

    67bmer F1 Rookie
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    #13 67bmer, Mar 8, 2017
    that is a good point! IF CA is not insisting on collecting the tax, then they know its not a real transfer of ownership. They are just being a-holes...

    On the other hand, if you try and push the issue, they may get the idea they could collect the tax - God knows they want the money...
     
  14. FrankForrest

    FrankForrest Rookie

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    #14 FrankForrest, Mar 8, 2017
    Just a comment, but you don't have to have the title to be the registered owner. When you take out a loan to buy a car, the bank holds the title and you are the "registered owner". But I agree this is a huge mess and hassle.
     
  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #15 Rifledriver, Mar 8, 2017
    I am not suggesting it was an innocent error. I said it would be impossible to prove otherwise.

    This is all pretty cut and dried stuff for a car dealer and DMV. They are either bumbling idiots or dishonest. I do not believe them but I do think if they are being helpful in fixing it, let them.
     
  16. bart12

    bart12 Formula 3

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    #16 bart12, Mar 8, 2017
    First of all, as a dealer, they know they should not have done that. It would never had happened if nobody has applied for a change of ownership/lien.

    Who signed for you(the seller)?

    I would say they are not deceitful(yet), but low IQ dealers I would not deal with. The inconvenience itself is unacceptable.

    I would file a complaint atleast with the CA DMV dealers department to keep count of this practice if you do not want to give their names. That way, it would not happen again.
     
  17. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 dm_n_stuff, Mar 8, 2017
    Fix it, get the title straightened out and move along.

    Consider yourself lucky that they didn't sell the car, keep the money, and transfer the title to the new owner, making it a **** ton more complicated to fix.

    sometimes less is more. Get the title in hand, and the car, and drive it home. Get it smogged, then thank the powers that be it's not a tougher fix than this.

    Once you have the car, and the title, if you want to try and recover your costs, take a shot in small claims court, where you'll get a judgment you can't enforce, and have wasted a couple days trying.

    D
     
  18. daveyator

    daveyator Formula Junior

    Jun 10, 2014
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    Dave B
    #18 daveyator, Mar 14, 2017
    Update for anyone interested. My new year sticker and registration arrived today. I have to say just as the dealer promised. As I also mentioned earlier they paid my late fee so I can't out them as a totally shady dealer. STILL I do wonder how a registration can change without a signed over title. I may go to DMV and try to find out. Thanks for all the comments.
     
  19. mkzhang

    mkzhang Formula Junior
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    #19 mkzhang, Mar 15, 2017
    Great to hear it all worked out, just chalk it up to bad communication and a bunch of half asleep morons at the DMV when reviewing paperwork
     
  20. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
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    #20 ferralc, Mar 15, 2017
  21. HardTen

    HardTen Formula 3
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    #21 HardTen, Mar 15, 2017
    I am still confused how a "finance company" for a consignment dealer can place a lien on a vehicle not owned outright by the consignment dealership. It almost sounds like the consignment dealership is using the consigned vehicles to borrow funds to help support their business.
     

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