430 - Continuing O2 Sensor Saga - Ignition Coils? Fuel Rail? | FerrariChat

430 Continuing O2 Sensor Saga - Ignition Coils? Fuel Rail?

Discussion in '360/430' started by VAF84, May 25, 2022.

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  1. VAF84

    VAF84 Formula 3

    Thought I'd continue my other thread with one that has a more appropriate title. For some more background I've attached the other thread link:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/bad-new-o2-sensors-ignition-coils-fabspeed-headers-oh-my.659272/

    Update. I finally found time to swap the new O2 sensors from one side to the other. I then took it through the smog reboot checklist, for at least a total of 30 minutes of driving. The car drove great outside of an odd idling when I got back, although thinking back the idle seemed low upon startup. Codes remain unchanged, and added some.

    I've browsed some other threads regarding the codes below which lead me to consider some potential causes.Probably explains the misfire code; but I'm not sure what caused it and if it's related to the O2 sensor issue. Could it be the coils causing this? Maybe fuel pump or fuel tube? I've already replaced spark plugs 2 years ago (about 2k miles ago).

    Also it seems like the car is switching between P0051 to P0050 from what I can tell on my code history.

    Can't decide if I should go ahead and replace left hand fuel pump, fuel tube (rail?), and ignition cables, or take it to an indy shop where I'll probably spend nearly as much on labor as I would replacing all of those parts from the Eurospares website.

    Anyone have any thoughts? Old is new O2 sensors where originally installed. New codes are by swapping sides.

    Old Blue Driver Codes:
    • P0056 O2 Sensor 2/2 Heater Circuit
    • P0051 O2 Sensor 2/1 Heater Circuit Low
    New Blue Driver Codes:
    • P0056 O2 Sensor 2/2 Heater Circuit
    • P0051 O2 Sensor 2/1 Heater Circuit Low
    • P0308 Cylinder 8 Misfire Detected
    Autotel Old Codes:
    • P1611 Permanent Power Supply [Cylinder bank 2]
    • P0056 Rear Lh Lambda Sensor Circuit
    • P0050 Front Lh Lambda Sensor Circuit
    New Autotel Codes:
    • P1611 Permanent Power Supply [Cylinder bank 2]
    • P0056 Rear Lh Lambda Sensor Circuit
    • P0051 Front Lh Lambda Sensor Circuit
    • P0300 Multiple Misfiring
    • P0308 Cylinder 8 Misfire
     
  2. LorenzoR

    LorenzoR F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Did you install new oem 02 sensors?
     
  3. VAF84

    VAF84 Formula 3

    All four are new. One from the dealer, 3 from other vendors. That's the reason I swapped sides, to make sure it wasn't an issue with the sensors themselves. It's not looking like it since I have the same O2 error codes from the same side.
     
  4. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,666
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    If I were faced with this ..i would look at all the data available in the ECU data stream in the ap200..comparing both sides ..fuel trims , voltages , air flow etc

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  5. VAF84

    VAF84 Formula 3


    Would it help if I posted it on here? Not sure I’d know what to do with the info.

    Btw I’m waiting on that accumulator to show up, will be giving you a call soon to chat!
     
  6. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Can you find a compression tester. Also this No8 misfire, take plug out plus another and compare condition. Think about swapping No 8 and another coil pack on same bank and see if misfire moves.
    Why change a fuel pump- if the car runs at speed it is getting fuel or does it give up if u trying going too quick, ie fuel starvation
     
  7. VAF84

    VAF84 Formula 3

    I do not have a compression tester, I can probably order one though. Great recommendations, although I may have the shop manage that. My project started up again, so I'm back on seven day weeks and I don't get much time at the house anymore.

    You're right, fuel pump isn't really attributed to this, I just had it on my buy list as something I planned to replace anyway. The fuel tube was what I'd considered a possible issue since another thread discussed the misfire code that ended up being the fuel tube.
     
  8. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,666
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Some of data yes..but some changes so rapidly that a snapshot won't help

    Do you know how to graph them in ap200

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  9. VAF84

    VAF84 Formula 3

    Unfortunately, I do not.
     
  10. LorenzoR

    LorenzoR F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    I was just wandering if their all OEM sensors
     
  11. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,666
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Takes few screen shots of the ECU list and i can pick a few key ones to monitor while running

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
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  12. Snapshift

    Snapshift Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2020
    734
    Centralia IL
    Full Name:
    Lyle D. Pahnke
    I had similar codes like this earlier on in my '05 430. Chased my tail with a lot of new plugs coils sensors etc. It was a vacuum leak at the intake manifold flange due to a bad gasket from the factory. It was diagnosed with a smoke test, gaskets replaced and I haven't seen a code since for a misfire thankfully. It ran great at speed before replacement of gaskets, but always would show misfire codes. Good luck.
     
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  13. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,666
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Going back to basics like the old days .. I am sure fuel trims will show vacuum leak issues ..
     
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  14. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    11,534
    Sydney
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    Ian Riddell
    The P056 and P051 seem to be a permanent feature of all tests. i.e. Left bank O2 heater codes. The O2 sensor heater circuit presents a resistance and the ECU is monitoring the voltage/current of the heater circuit. Checking voltages going to the heater is only half the story, depending on how you check that voltage. Maybe you should be checking the resistance of the wiring going to the O2 heaters. The wiring may be presenting a resistance which, in series with the resistance of the O2 sensor heater, is too high.

    Perhaps you could check the resistance wiring between the fuse (PSF4) and the O2 sensors.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Check plug XL41 behind the driver to make sure pin/socket #5 isn't bent/damaged. Location of fuse and plug XL41 here:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    Look for the violet wire on pin 5.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Check the fuseholder to make sure it isn't melted or corroded.

    This won't help with the misfire, however.
     
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  15. VAF84

    VAF84 Formula 3

    One is Ferrari OEM, two were Bosch ordered from Rock Auto, and one was Bosch ordered from Advanced Auto parts.

    Hope to get a chance to do that this weekend, will then post it.

    Great info, may have the indy give that a shot. Mine's an 05 too, so could very well be the issue with mine. Only thing is that it happened to do it right in the middle of my o2 sensor test. I also may need to check and make sure everything got sealed properly when I reinstalled the parts in the intake area.

    Thanks for sharing this, very useful! I'll add that to my things to check when I get back in there.
     
  16. VAF84

    VAF84 Formula 3

    I think this saga is coming to an end. I'm picking up the car today from the shop and we think the issue is resolved. This is what they did:
    • Fuses PDF4 & PDF24 were found to be blown, and were replaced. This appeared to resolve an issue with the O2 sensor's CEL.
    • This may or may not have been tied to the issue since the O2 sensor light went off after addressing the fuses, but the intake gaskets were replaced to resolve a cylinder 8 misfire and rough idle
    • compression test was done, and returned normal with no issues
    • Spark Plugs were replaced between fuse replacement and gasket replacement
    I haven't picked up the car yet, but I spent a pretty penny on it so I hope it's resolved.
     
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  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    11,534
    Sydney
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    Ian Riddell
    Strange. Didn't you have problems with the left bank O2 sensor heating?

    Fuse PDF4 is for the right hand side lambda sensors. PDF24 is either not used or used for ABS depending on which 430 manual you read.

    PSF4 is LH O2 heaters. PSF24 is for the centre console power socket.

    I guess the gaskets would give you O2 sensor errors, but it seems odd that it would be giving you heater errors.

    Wish you luck :) Let us know how you go.
     
  18. VAF84

    VAF84 Formula 3

    Thanks! Although now you have me nervous again, lol. They say the CEL lights aren’t coming back on, and when I did all the swapping of the O2 sensors the lights would come on pretty much immediately. So I’m optimistic about that. Right now the car is scheduled for a mini-detail and I should get it back Friday so I can drive it around this weekend and make sure it’s cycling properly and can pass smog.

    If it doesn’t, I think my next step is to return the ECU to stock, and either get another set of O2 extenders or return the car to stock headers and sell it. All I know is that the car had no issues with the O2 extenders and stock ECU, until the O2 extenders started falling out continuously. Unfortunately the extenders becoming permanently loose and falling out, and the ECU upgrade happened at about the same time, so it’s hard to tell if either of those had an impact or if it’s just a coincidence. It’s frustrating because otherwise the car has been running great, and the ECU tune was an improvement.
     
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  19. Snapshift

    Snapshift Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2020
    734
    Centralia IL
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    Lyle D. Pahnke
    #19 Snapshift, Jul 21, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2022
    I had Fabspeed headers, Fabspeed mini cats with offsets (that would loosen) and a stock ecu tune when originally purchased in 2020. No CEL's An Indy said I didn't need the minicats and removed them because of loosening and replaced the O2 sensors in the bung. After that , still no CEL's. I can sell you the minicats if you would like with the elbows and threads that are fine. I have since had a ECU tune with this setup . no mini cat extenders, and it runs perfect with no CEL's. What was continuing to give me misfire CEL's was a leaking intake manifold which you have repaired. My guess is that you will be fine now. I do not know if the recent ECU tune removed any codes from the O2 sensors or not , but I'm not in a state that does emission checks. If I sell it, it would probably have to be to a buyer in a non inspection state. If you go back to the minicats with elbows, I would try to fabricate some sort of heat resistant metal banding and bracing to prevent vibration loosening them. You might see if you could get a 3M diamond friction washer to hold as well. The threads probably could be repaired with a helicoil insert. FWIW.
     
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  20. VAF84

    VAF84 Formula 3

    Thanks for the offer. I think this is going to do it though. Actually, it might have been your posts on the intake manifolds that sent me in that direction (if so, much appreciated!). I was reading a lot of info here on the site and came across that scenario, which is why I wanted them to do a smoke test and check them.
     
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  21. craze

    craze Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2021
    1,036
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Wouldnt henkel have a thread locking product for such high temps that would stop mini cats coming out?
     

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