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Converting F1 to manual

Discussion in '360/430' started by TimTifosa, Mar 23, 2012.

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  1. TimTifosa

    TimTifosa Karting

    Mar 21, 2007
    201
    #1 TimTifosa, Mar 23, 2012
    Has anyone actually converted an 360 F1 to manual? I know that there have been a number of posts about this topic, but I can't find anyone who has actually done it.

    I have all the main parts, and am ready to do it. It seems not too hard. Have I missed anything? New 3 pedal box just bolts in. New clutch master cylinder. New hydraulic line from the clutch master cylinder to the clutch housing. Manual Gearshift assembly bolts into the hole where the F1 reverse switch lives. Disconnect all the F1 mechanical connectors at the gearbox, and attach the manual gearshift cable ends instead. Disconnect the electrical plugs to the F1 hydraulic assembly to disable it (it doesn't have to be removed). Possibly disconnect the gearbox ECU. Disconnect the gear change paddle electrical connector at the steering column.

    I have left out a bit of detail for simplicity. But comparing spare parts diagrams for F1 and manual 360's, there are a few small fittings, brackets and bolts that are also needed.

    The only unknown that I can think of, is whether the computers will come up with errors
    without input from all the F1 sensors.

    And I know some are going to say just sell your F1 and buy a manual, which is an option.
    But I already have the parts, it doesn't look like a very hard job, and fiddling with my car is a bit of fun. On the other hand, there are so many 360 F1's for sale, that prices are low, and it is hassle. Also I would be swapping a car that I know and have looked after, for an unknown.

    Then there is the issue where I live in Australia, that when you buy a car, there are all of the taxes that have to be paid, which adds to the price. And when ever I buy a car, I really begrudge writing the cheque for the taxes, more than the cheque for the car.
     
  2. F430addict

    F430addict F1 Rookie

    Sep 17, 2010
    4,460
    #2 F430addict, Mar 23, 2012
    Goodonya buddy for trying. Best of luck.
     
  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 TheMayor, Mar 23, 2012
    Here's what I don't understand.

    Why not just sell the F1 and buy a Manual?

    It's not like they are impossible to find.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-360-Modena-03-Ferrari-360-Modena-6-Speed-ONLY-8k-MILES-DAYTONAS-BLACK-CUOIO-/230766006301?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item35bab9d01d#ht_39371wt_1182

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1999-Ferrari-360-Modena-Coupe-6-Speed-Manual-Serviced-All-Records-/130670213977?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item1e6c8d3b59#ht_20531wt_1165

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004-FERRARI-360-MODENA-RED-10K-6-SPEED-MANUAL-COUPE-1-OWNER-SERVICED-/180846010178?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2a1b431f42
     
  4. THINKFAST

    THINKFAST Karting

    Jan 13, 2011
    195
    Earth, mostly ...
    #4 THINKFAST, Mar 24, 2012
    If you are serious, contact 360 Trev. He did a Stradale manual conversion .He took it to the extreme. What a work of art, his project will blow your mind,truely impressive... Search: "360 Stradale 6 speed manual conversion" He is in the UK.
     
  5. SnowmanUK

    SnowmanUK Karting

    Dec 11, 2010
    174
    London, UK
    #5 SnowmanUK, Mar 24, 2012
    Trev started his project with a manual Modena, he didn't convert an F1 gearbox car to manual.
     
  6. HH11

    HH11 F1 Rookie
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    Sep 4, 2010
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    #6 HH11, Mar 24, 2012
    If you were talking about converting a CS, then I would understand. If I were you I would sell the F1, buy a manual, and sell the other parts you have(or keep them for repairs). It is a big undertaking to swap a different transmission.
     
  7. 360C

    360C F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 31, 2003
    14,875
    Melbourne Australia
    #7 360C, Mar 24, 2012
    It's been done...................... in Melbourne Australia. When the 360 Challenge first came out to race in the Nations Cup series, Prancing Horse converted a car to manual. The F1 was slow off the start line so they did the conversion. Cost a fortune and wasn't that good, eventually the car was put back to F1 spec.

    Total WOTAM in my opinion. It would cost way more than the stamp duty on selling the F1 and buying a manual.
     
  8. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
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    #8 rmani, Mar 24, 2012
    i'd love to see someone do this on a 458.
     
  9. THINKFAST

    THINKFAST Karting

    Jan 13, 2011
    195
    Earth, mostly ...
    #9 THINKFAST, Mar 24, 2012
    Yes,we all know that. Trev mentions that it is very possible to do... If anyone should require advice on such a complex project ,Trev would be the guy to talk to.
     
  10. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,836
    Bologna
    #10 JohnMH, Mar 25, 2012
    Please post more in this. A 360 F1 kind of found me (a long story) but I hate the F1 box. This would be an awesome car if it only had a manual. Selling and finding one is not an option, there are almost no manuals in the part of the world where I live (and I could never sell this one locally for anything close to what a manual would cost elsewhere).


    Good luck.
     
  11. F430addict

    F430addict F1 Rookie

    Sep 17, 2010
    4,460
    #11 F430addict, Mar 26, 2012
    Now we're talking!!!
     
  12. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 TheMayor, Mar 26, 2012

    Yes -- let's take a fast car and make it slower.

    Then again, I'm sure some people miss Windows Millenium Edition too. :)
     
  13. BANANA

    BANANA Formula Junior

    Apr 21, 2007
    349
    #13 BANANA, Mar 26, 2012
    About a month ago there was a red with beige manual 2002 or 2003 360 modena in Alaweer used car market Dubai. Can't remember the dealer's name but he is next door to Diablo motors in the ''NEW'' alaweer used car market. From a distance it looked like a nice car and if I remember correctly it had challenge wheels on it. If it's still available maybe you could do some sort of exchange with yours.

    Regards
     
  14. yronZFF

    yronZFF Formula Junior
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    #14 yronZFF, Mar 26, 2012
    I'd love to trade in my "slow" 430 for a "slow" 458! ;)
     
  15. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran
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    #15 blackbolt22, Mar 26, 2012
    Agreed. Why go to all that trouble and diminish value of car at the same time? I love a 6 speed as much or more than the next guy but no way would I purchase a conversion.


     
  16. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,836
    Bologna
    #16 JohnMH, Mar 26, 2012
    Thanks for this, now I have something to do on the weekend! My car os a 2000, it runs well (just a bit boring) and just had a fair bit of cosmetic work done, will see what this one looks like.
     
  17. TimTifosa

    TimTifosa Karting

    Mar 21, 2007
    201
    #17 TimTifosa, Mar 28, 2012
    Do you know exactly why they didn't consider the conversion as successful? That is really what I was wanting to know in this post. I detailed why the conversion seems relatively easy. I am looking for someone who experienced an actual conversion, to see if there were any unexpected problems. On the surface, since the engine and gearbox is the same in F1 and manual, it is only a matter of disconnecting the actuators from the electric/hydraulic F1 system, and connecting the manually operated gearbox cables, and hydraulically operated clutch.
     
  18. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
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    #18 rmani, Mar 29, 2012
    or you could say let's take a great car and make it even more fun to drive! ;)
     
  19. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    #19 SoftwareDrone, Mar 29, 2012
    They are already doing this! Sort of...

    They are installing clutch pedals in the 458 Challenge cars.
    Even though I am a manual die hard, I would be very satisfied if I could get my hands on a 458 with paddles and a clutch pedal. Best of both worlds!!
     
  20. TimTifosa

    TimTifosa Karting

    Mar 21, 2007
    201
    #20 TimTifosa, Mar 29, 2012
    A blanket statement that manuals are slower, is not exactly true.

    On a race track, the F1 is fractionally faster, the difference being
    the sum of the saved gear change times around a circuit. This small,
    but important difference in a race on a track, gives the F1 an
    advantage.

    In all other non race track situations, there is no advantage, and I
    would argue, at least for me, that the manual is faster. The 360 F1
    is slow getting away from lights in 1st gear, due to a delay before
    moving off, and more prolonged clutch slipping before moving off. This
    is probably the feature of the F1 which annoys me the most.

    Then there are occasions when cruising in a high gear, there is a need
    to quickly change to 2nd after slowing down or on entering a corner. In the
    manual one can quickly snap into 2nd. In the F1, one has to
    sequentially go down the gears. If you go to neutral in the F1,
    and then select a gear, it goes into too high a gear. This all adds
    lots of time in the F1.

    Don't get me wrong, I believe the F1 is a marvelous piece of engineering,
    which improved over time. Compared with the 360 F1, the 355 F1 was
    much worse, the 430 F1 is better, and with the twin clutch 438 F1,
    the system seems to have reached maturity.

    In the end, as posted in Fchat many times, it is a matter of personal
    preference. But for those that can heel & toe, and double declutch,
    the F1 is a bit boring, and lacks control and finesse that can be achieved
    manually.
     
  21. Trent

    Trent Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2003
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    #21 Trent, Mar 29, 2012
    The 458 has two transmissions in one housing with two clutches. So I suspect I dont have enough legs to drive it, given it would need two clutch pedals. I suppose you would need two shifters as well.

    So I wonder how the TCU decides which clutch the pedal controls at any given moment. I suppose if you are accelerating it is the next gear's clutch to be selected. Or maybe it is both clutches, that would work, but would remove some of the key benefits of a dual clutch setup; the benefit of always having the combustion engine connected to the drive wheels (theoretically at least).

    One could always bolt up a traditional single clutch transmission to the 458, but then you lose the e-diff. Its integrated. Unless you use a 430 transmission.

    Interesting thoughts.
     
  22. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    #22 SoftwareDrone, Mar 30, 2012
    According to the article I read, the clutch pedal was used only for moving out of and coming into the box. It probably disengages both clutches. If I had an F1 street car with a clutch pedal, that would be the only time I would use it as well.
     
  23. Trent

    Trent Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2003
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    #23 Trent, Mar 30, 2012
    Excellent point! If they use the pedal for 1st gear only then you could tie the pedal to the 1st gear clutch or both clutches. I think I would like that option.

    458 SCS (Scuderia Challenge Stradale) OPTIONS ADDENDUM
    -OPTION 17716 [Clutch Pedal] ($7650 USD) - Clutch pedal that operates both clutches synchronously - track pack option. Can not be used in conjunction with the midlife crisis package, grocery package, or granny package.
     

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