Cookware opinions? | Page 5 | FerrariChat

Cookware opinions?

Discussion in 'Drink, Smoke, and Fine Dining' started by Nurburgringer, Jan 16, 2013.

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  1. ScuderiaWithStickPlease

    ScuderiaWithStickPlease F1 World Champ

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    The gap created by the dimples on the lid left a great deal of room. That contradicted my experience. We also checked out the gap on a large LC at Sur La Table. Ends up they use a dimples in the same way on at least some of their lids, but the gap left is nowhere as large as the one found on the Kirkland-Staub (so much for match machining lid to pot.)

    I'm sure this limitation could be worked around, but at some point the savings aren't worth the effort and potential errors.
     
  2. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    Huh. Just checked the Lodge's lid, and the three 'nubs' raise it enough to allow ~6 layers of paper to slide through the areas inbetween the nubs with the lid on (used like a feeler gauge) so what's that about 20 thousands or so?
    Still wondering how a tighter seal (but still not impregnable like a pressure cooker) would change the cooking process much. Are you saying that a tighter seal would result in increased pressure (>1 atm) and temps (of both liquid and gases) inside?
    Moisture and steam will escape, it must, so just trying to understand what's going on inside to get the "best" braise...
     
  3. ScuderiaWithStickPlease

    ScuderiaWithStickPlease F1 World Champ

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    Judging by results, you get a more moist product with a tighter seal.

    I would guess that the pressure inside rises a bit, as would the temperature. But the moisture levels inside would be upped as well, at which point we might get that condensate rain we've talked about previously (I know the lid is exposed to oven temp. That doesn't mean condensation won't form does it? The meat's mass makes its temp a factor, as does all the vapor, and the tight fit we're supposed to shoot for.)

    The nice thing about the Kirkland-Staub is that it has a skirt on the inside of the lid-to-pot seal, which I think is meant to divert rising steam. But once we get the desired pressure, that skirt shouldn't make much of a difference, right?

    The other factor is that the Kirland-Staub's lid is much, much heavier than what we saw at Sur La Table. So while it does have more clearance at the joining surface, perhaps its weight keeps moisture escape under control? But then that extra weight would, eventually, create more radiant heat, wouldn't it?

    That's it! I'm buying a professional, stand-alone floor mounted braising set up, complete with external steam generation. I'll cook one meal a year in that thing, freeze most of it, and call it a life!!!
     
  4. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #104 Nurburgringer, Apr 23, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
    How much does one of those go for at Costco?!

    Condensation inside the oven is an interesting question. Let's see if I can work through it...
    We know that at atmospheric pressure water can never be hotter than 212F. At double the pressure (typical inside a pressure cooker) it boils at ~250F.
    So the liquid in any dutch oven, unless it has a tightly fitting 200lb lid, will boil at something below 250F.
    The temperature of the air inside the pressure cooker will be somewhere between the liquid (and food of course) and temp of the oven (which is somewhat hotter than the inside, and outside of the Dutch oven).
    In order for any steam to condense it must contact a surface (or gas) cooler than it's own temperature, since it has to pass energy somewhere in order to transform back to a liquid state.
    So, once it's up to temp inside a 300F+ oven, is any part of a dutch oven's interior, above the liquid, cooler than the steam inside of it?
    The steam has to go somewhere of course; some leaks out yet after 6+ hours bubbling away one would think there wouldn't be much liquid left if all the moisture escaped.
    Need to mull it over a bit more... or someone with a Staub or another DO with a "nubby" lid could maybe fashion a device (like a round of paper towel on top of foil, suspended above the water line) that would record where any condensation drips down from above? :)

    I've been thinking about buying a pressure cooker as well. Poor timing I know... but watched an Alton Brown show the other night where he makes beef stock in an hour instead of the 5 hours it takes me with a regular pot. That would let me make real onion soup much more often than I do now!
     
  5. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    No disrespect to mr. Brown. ( his studio is literally behind our house) .. he tends in my opinion to make simple things complex.

    the romans came up with a solution to your problem of sealing a pot to make it air tight...
    they would take clay and seal the pot around the lid and base of the pot.

    Modern interpretation is to use "dead dough" that is made with flour, water and salt. you make it into a dough -and roll it out and thickly cover the pot lid seam... when it cooks it makes any pot an air tight seal.

    when you open it you have to crack the dough...voila.
     
  6. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #106 Nurburgringer, Apr 27, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
    Good stuff Spirot, I remember watching a show years ago where they sealed the lid of a pot with that dough.
    Alton definitely errs on the anally retentive side but I like his enthusiasm and sense of humor. He's inspired me to try several techniques and many recipes I'd otherwise never have experienced.

    Well today was GORGEOUS out so we took the dogs for a stroll through the trendy part of town and stopped by Glorioso's for an al fresco lunch. Picked up 1.5lbs of baccala (basically a 2 foot long filet - salesguy didn't know who preserved it but since it's sell-by date is July 30th it could have come from far away!) a can of San Marzano crushed and 1/3lb of aged Sardinian Pecorino so while the fish is soaking for the next 24-48 hours I'm debating what to do with it.

    Side note: pleased to see they carry Guanciale, but $18.99/lb?! I hate it when unloved/unknown meat cuts I love (like hanger steak) become stylish and everyone jacks up the price!

    This baccala recipe looks simple and good:
    http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/melting-pot/uncle-vincents-christmas-eve-baccala-recipe/index.html

    What do you mean by "modern" bacalao?
    What's your (or Spirot's, or anyone's) favorite salt cod recipe?
    I haven't eaten this fish since about 15 years, back when I was seeing a lusty Italian girl who's family had the Feast every Christmas Eve.

    Tonight's menu: grilled Usinger Weisswurst with the last of the leftover corn pone and baked beans. So great to be cooking outside without a parka!
     
  7. ScuderiaWithStickPlease

    ScuderiaWithStickPlease F1 World Champ

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    #107 ScuderiaWithStickPlease, Apr 27, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
    It's cured a lot less than the traditional stuff, buried in salt just long enough to give the fish that cured texture with some saltiness, without pushing the fish all the way to shoe leather . . . (Boulud recommends a method for doing this in the book. If you want more interesting texture, cure it longer.)

    I like soaking it for a couple of days, then baking it over either wilted greens or yukons tossed with onions and evoo, with a thick layer of good tomatoes on top that are dotted with crushed garlic and red pepper flakes. It's superb and easy. (The tomatoes taste almost oven dried, so while quality is always important you don't need the very best tomatoes for this, relying on the drying to concentrate flavor. You could also used canned tomatoes, combine greens and potatoes, etc.)
     
  8. ScuderiaWithStickPlease

    ScuderiaWithStickPlease F1 World Champ

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    Almost forgot: to emulate the resistance I experienced while pulling a piece of paper out of a closed LC with the Kirkland-Staub, I had to fold that same piece of paper twice, for four layers. I have no way of knowing what happens with either pot when it's at cooking temp. For all I know the K-S seals better. I don't think the seal is as tight as it ought to be, though.
     
  9. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #109 Nurburgringer, Apr 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Could try filing down the 3 stand-offs on the Lodge's lid a tiny bit to tighten it up, if one were so inclined.

    Thanks for the baccala suggestion - really good tomatoes are a ways off yet but it came out awesome with a can of San Marzano's, a couple roasted red peppers, chopped up jar of garlic stuffed green olives languishing in the fridge and potatoes.
    Leftovers made incredible pizza (well it would have been a pizza but the dough stuck to the peel while prepping so it became a calzone lol) with a couple slices of provolone. Store-brand pizza dough from a tube was surprisingly tasty with a very good chew.
    The cod, as stiff as leather at first, took ~24 hours soaking to clear out the salt.
    Really super seafood taste, neat texture to the fish, quick to prepare after the soaking is done, will be making this again for sure!
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  10. ScuderiaWithStickPlease

    ScuderiaWithStickPlease F1 World Champ

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    I'm glad it all worked out, Ringer.

    Baking it in the oven with fresh tomatoes, in a pan, will give a very different dish, but yours looks great.

    (Nice calzone!)
     
  11. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    I bet - if oven dried tomatoes taste anything like sun dried ones it'll be even sweeter with a difference texture. Never been a big fan of sun dried tomatoes myself but would like to do it with fresh ones later. Though using fresh tomatoes and "old" fish is pretty funny :)

    Bummed that the pizza stone cracked in half, was our fifth I think.
    Can't find a 12x12 commercial stone to fit in our toaster oven so have been using unglazed 1' sq tiles from home depot. For about a buck they work great, until they don't....

    If I ever find a thicker 12x12 stone for similar price I'll buy 10 of them.
     
  12. ScuderiaWithStickPlease

    ScuderiaWithStickPlease F1 World Champ

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    You can do all kinds of great stuff with oven-dried tomatoes. They make a great spread over toasted bread (chop coarsely, add herbs, evoo, chopped olives sea salt), can be made into a great topping for roasts, etc.

    Try this instead of a pizza stone:

    Amazon.com: Lodge Pro-Logic P14P3 Cast Iron Pizza Pan, Black, 14-inch: Kitchen & Dining

    As for sanding down the nubs on the enamel pot's lid:

    I'd want to know what happens to the gap when these things expand at max temp. Who knows how they have these things worked out? And if the lid starts banging against the pot and the enamel starts to chip . . .

    I'd rather buy the real thing than play that game. But if anyone tries please post results. (You get the feeling that someone should be able to manufacture a great enameled pot for far less money, Ringer? I do. Start with a stripped Lodge and go from there . . .)
     
  13. powerpig

    powerpig F1 World Champ
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  14. ScuderiaWithStickPlease

    ScuderiaWithStickPlease F1 World Champ

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    #114 ScuderiaWithStickPlease, May 2, 2013
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
    Your address and date of your next family vacation . . . . ?

    LoL!
     
  15. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    I'm sure that works great but it won't fit in my 12x12 toaster oven. Probably doesn't cost much more time or money if any to heat up the big (gas) oven vs the little convection toaster (which isn't insulated nearly as well around the glass door), maybe it's just in my head. Both get to around 550F interior temp, wish I had a non-contract thermometer to check which one gets the stone hotter since the toaster oven has electric coils much closer to the stone than the big oven's gas burners.
    Smaller frozen pizzas (Gino's deep dish Chicago style mainly) fit in our 9" cast iron pan so that's how we do those.

    I'm not planning on filing down the Lodge's lid, happy with the results so far and looking forward to using it for many more just how it is.
     
  16. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    I like egg on my pizza :p
    We had a great one in Rome just outside of the Vatican.

    Hey Pig be sure to post pics when you next fire up that hibachi!

    What's the current count of outdoor cooking apparatus in the Power Pig arsenal, more than a dozen?
     
  17. powerpig

    powerpig F1 World Champ
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    Question answered in your grill/cooker thread. Take a look. :)
     
  18. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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  19. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #119 Nurburgringer, May 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    great sounding recipe Spirot. How do you "flake" potatoes?

    I fried up fillets of ocean perch last week, came out excellent. Will give your "Brandade de poisson salee" a go sometime!

    Broke out Boloud's cookbook again yesterday for Pork Butt with Hazelnuts, Golden Raisins, and Jerusalem Artichokes.
    Couldn't find hazelnuts in the local market so substituted walnuts, and simplified the recipe by toasting the nuts/breadcrumbs/butter topping and serving in a bowl for diners to sprinkle over the dish instead of "crusting" the pork but still an awesome combination of flavors and succulent textures.
    Also, when I made up my shopping list didn't realize that Jerusalem artichokes were different than the normal ones, but the dish was still very tasty lol
    Ladled out ~2/3 of the liquid about halfway through and mixed it with rioux to make a wonderful sauce.
    Also finally got to use the convertible oven grate so the wife's pineapple cake could bake along with the Dutch Oven.
    The enamel's still looking great BTW.
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  20. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    to flake Potatoes - cook potatoes till they are fork tender - meaning you stab them with a fork and they fall off in one motion... hold the fork downwards with the stabbed potato and when the potatoe falls off... its done.

    let the potato cool... does not have to cold, but cool to the touch. then start to flake the potato -by pressing on it and having it crack and flake off...you want a coarse flake for the fish. or you can use a ricer - pain in the A - or back of a fork ... but you dont want to mash the potato... you want it to be light and fluffy flakes.

    Jerusalm artichokes are in the potato family - and are very tasty. try thin sliced on a mondolin and then fry them and serve with mustard aoli... when you slice the choke.. fry immediatly ... salt & pepper... dip and enjoy - goes great with Chablis
     
  21. ScuderiaWithStickPlease

    ScuderiaWithStickPlease F1 World Champ

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    How To Cook - Cooks Illustrated
     
  22. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #122 Nurburgringer, Sep 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    heh almost exactly one year since the last post in this thread.
    Last weekend we finally set out to use a $100 gift card to Williams Sonoma someone gave us for our wedding 4 years ago, so after wandering around the local store for what seemed like hours settled on an 4-qt All-Clad D5 "Essential" pan marked down to $99.
    All-Clad d5 Stainless-Steel Essential Pan | Williams-Sonoma
    Holy **** this thing is heavy. I almost sprained my wrist picking it up with one hand to dish out pasta last night.
    I think it's really designed for an induction cook top, or a BIG gas burner. Making F-Chat's favorite tomato sauce (can of San Marzanos, stick of butter, onion, and a can of crab meat for something different) even on the bigger burner didn't quite heat up the edges as much as I'd like. Cleaned up easily though and makes for a shiny, impressive display piece.
    Would have preferred a heavy 4-qt sauce or stock pot but these were $200+.

    BTW the Lodge dutch oven is still going strong ~2 years and at least 25 dishes later. No chips in the enamel.

    Here's a new company in Oregon making gorgeous cast iron cookware:
    Seeing cast iron skillets get made makes me want to cook
    Sure you can pick up a perfectly fine old CI pan for $10 but if you've got the cash $200 for one of their beautiful, hand crafted 12" pans doesn't sound totally crazy.

    I also finally got around to hanging a pot rack over the island in our new kitchen. Nice having ready access to the small cutting board and pans.

    It's about time to braise up some pork belly... looking back at some of the pics in this thread are making me hungry!
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  23. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #123 Nurburgringer, Sep 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Last weekend I broke out the 16qt pot my MIL gave us to make a big batch of Gumbo, with the intention to freeze at least 1/2 for easy meals after our baby is born next week.
    Turned out to be one of my best ever if I do say so...

    5 lbs of organic chicken thighs, 1lb andouille, 1 lb LA crawfish tails, 3 poblanos (supermarket was inexplicably out of green bells), 1 qt chicken and 1 qt seafood stock, and "double roux".
    After mixing the veg trinity into the first veg oil/four dark roux in the big pot browned the sausage then chicken in a separate pan and made a second roux with the fat, adding a can of Miller High Life after browning.
    The beer added a really nice, mild yeasty taste to the finished product. Really happy with how it turned out.
    We ate Gumbo 3 times this week and have a couple quarts to defrost when the mood strikes.
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  24. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Kurt...Looks great. Nice set up. Gumbo looked awesome! Nice to see someone else doing CI in the US. I've almost completely switched to CI & away from non-stick in past year, except for cooking rice. Making my own roux is next on the list of to be mastered. Is double roux two batches? Extra dark? Something else?...T
     
  25. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    I can't get away from non-stick for eggs (with CI they have to be almost swimming in fat, which is great but...) and the new electric griddle for pancakes but otherwise I'm with you T.

    After the first roux in the big pot I wanted to keep the brown bits and some fat from the sausage and chicken fried in a separate pan, so made a second roux with that. Didn't get it as dark as the first before adding the beer, but that just added to the complexity of the final flavor.
    Could have fried the meat first in big pot and made one roux I suppose but the 16qt'er is fairly thin and not as big around as the non-stick fryer so doing it this way gave me more control.

    Just take your time with roux. It's so tempting to turn up the heat to speed up the browning but you must resist!
    I generally use a softish rubber spatula to stir roux; makes "wiping" the corners of the pan/pot easy for complete flour incorporation and even browning.

    Wish I had time/inclination to make my own stock. Ive done it a couple times and it takes gumbo to the next level.
     

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