Correct Cold Start Valve...? | FerrariChat

Correct Cold Start Valve...?

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by 85QVEuro, Jan 23, 2023.

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  1. 85QVEuro

    85QVEuro Formula Junior

    Jan 15, 2021
    545
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Joe
    I need to confirm the correct cold start valve for a 1985 Mondial Euro. I had my entire CIS unit re-built by a well known vendor and the cold start valve went missing. I was sent a good bosch 0 280 170 409 but I am not sure it is correct for my application. From research, I think the Ferrari part # is 115739 which could be a Bosch 0 280 170 400 but I have also seen Bosch 0 280 170 401 listed as the correct cold start valve...

    So my questions are:
    • can I use the bosch 0 280 170 409 on my '85 Mondial Euro?
    • If not, which Bosch part # is correct for my application 0 280 170 400? or 0 280 170 401?
    Thanks for the help with this
     
  2. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Jun 20, 2008
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  3. 85QVEuro

    85QVEuro Formula Junior

    Jan 15, 2021
    545
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Thanks Urs ...I am in the midst of trading the Bosch 0 280 170 409 cold start valve that the vendor sent back for a Bosch 0 280 170 401 even though my car is non-Lamda...I am told that the difference between the Bosch 0 280 170 400 (correct) and the Bosch 0 280 170 401 (which I am getting) shouldn't cause an issue. Please weigh in if someone knows differently. Thank you
     
  4. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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  5. 85QVEuro

    85QVEuro Formula Junior

    Jan 15, 2021
    545
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Thank you
     
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  6. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    194
    Monaco MC
    Maybe OT but I can assure that I removed the cold start valve at all with no difference I can feel in real world, except cold idling is maybe less smelly and smokey now (ambient is 5-10°C). I am sure many here can confirm they run without a cold start valve.
    Not a reply to the OP, I realize, but a cost-effective solution for sure when you don't exactly know which cold start valve to use.
     
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  7. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    To my understanding, the additional injection of fuel via the cold start valve happens for a few seconds only with a coolant temperature below 35°C, controlled via the thermo-time switch.
     
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  8. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    194
    Monaco MC
    I don't know the exact details of the cold starting strategy, and in particular what triggers the valve, and what switches it off, but my exhaust was to me a bit too much smelling and smoking during cold idling (for much longer than a few seconds); my reasoning was that a leaking cold start valve could be the cause of it, so I wanted to try without, to realize that it made no difference to idling if not a bit better for smell/smoke. I would assume maybe in extreme cold weather the cold start valve could be needed, otherwise it wouldn't be there, but I can positively say that on my car at my place, despite a cold winter in relative terms, I can well do without it.
    So if I was about purchasing a new one, like the OP is, I would try without, first...
    As for myself, as I am maniac of retaining an original look, I left everything in place, just I used a blank bolt and teflon thread sealer for the banjo fitting, instead of the hollow bolt; it saves the looks and it also saves dangerous attempts of plugging the fuel lines in "creative" ways... the level of fuel leaking risk is stock (a couple of copper washers, better to be replaced). By the way the valve connector is still plugged, so the valve won't probably stick forever if I will ever want to revert back to stock (which I am not at the moment).
    I hope it helps the OP...
     
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  9. 85QVEuro

    85QVEuro Formula Junior

    Jan 15, 2021
    545
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    Full Name:
    Joe
    Corradosv - thank you for the input and the details of your own experience and the way you overrode the cold start valve without deviating from the stock look
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,766
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Easy enough to just remove the cold start injector from the manifold and either: 1) block the opening in the intake plenum to see if fuel is leaking/coming out of the cold start injector during engine idling, or 2) manually run the fuel pump (without running the engine) to see if fuel is leaking out of the cold start injector. It's also possible that an electrical problem is wrongly actuating the cold start valve when it shouldn't be -- did you ever try just unplugging the cold start injector to see if you got the same effect?
     
  11. 85QVEuro

    85QVEuro Formula Junior

    Jan 15, 2021
    545
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Steve - thanks as always for the advice and help...it will be a little while before I can test the cold start valve or anything else...I bought a non-running Mondial QV euro early in the pandemic and am working to get it back on the road. The cold start valve issue cropped up when I went to test install the plenum and realized that the vendor that rebuilt the CIS didn't send me back the CSV (sent it to them for testing) and then sent me the wrong one (a 0 280 170 409) when I called to follow up...Sometimes it's aggravating but I am having fun (I am not sure what that says about me) ...This weekend I am going to try to dial in the valve clearances - I have about 56 shims between the originals and a bunch that I needed and I will be glad when that is all dialed in...

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  12. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    194
    Monaco MC
    Hi no I am sorry I didn't...
     
  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,766
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    If it is really leaking, you have almost no choice but to do as you have done, or replace it. You could also measure the voltage between the two pins in the unplugged harness connector of the cold start injector during cold idle: if (correctly) 0 VDC = not an electrical issue; but if +12V DC = an electrical problem.

    However, I would say that, if your cold starts are good at 5 deg C with no cold start injector, you probably have a very rich mixture situation (either just being set rich, or the WUR cold control pressure is abnormally low and adding even more richness than usual). On the catless euro version cars, this isn't much of an issue as IC engines run great when rich and no cat to overheat. On a cat-equipped US version, your coachwork is on fire ;).
     
  14. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    194
    Monaco MC
    Hi Steve,
    yes definitely I have a rich mixture, as the exhaust sure smells gas, both in cold and warm (and hot) engine conditions, although a bit less at cold than with the CSV in my very subjective personal perception.
    Honestly I have no reference to say wether the level of smell is normal or not for a non cat vehicle, as I don't have any back-to-back comparison available; it is rich to me, but as a matter of fact the engine runs like a charm, so I am reluctant to fix something that is not broken...
     

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