correct windshield adhesive | FerrariChat

correct windshield adhesive

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Artvonne, Mar 25, 2007.

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  1. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
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    Figuring there are some chemists and engineers around here, I thought someone would have a good answer. My 77 Ferrari windhield and probably every Ferrari until recent times, was instally using Butyl rubber adhesive. Recently everyone has gone to Urethane, citing higher psi of adhesive strength, making the glass a structural member, blah blah blah. So, the question of the day, which one to use? What would you guys use to install the glass in a Dino, or a Boxer, or any vintage Ferrari? Am I mistaken in that the urethane bonds faster, so its basically install and go, vs butyl needing a good 24 hours? Once cured dont both have about the same strength?
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 fatbillybob, Mar 26, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
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    The butyl "windshield tape" would have been used on the car at that time. Windshields were not really structural members on cars at that time (except the Lancia Montecarlo/Scorpion), so it would need a flexible adhesive as these non-stressed chassis/bodies do flex (I'm not sure how flexible this urethane stuff is, so it may make it too rigid with the body and that could cause the windshield to crack if that were the case). JMHO...
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Interesting point. Mine is OEM and it cracked anyway on a stiff as a rail rollcaged 348. So no big deal for me I'm going lexan for racing. I've been waiting for my window to crack so I have an excuse for the change. I'm not sure what all causes windows to crack. When it did crack the overnight temps were in the high single digits. But don't windows get snow and ice etc. on them all over the world? What not only can a Ferrari not drive in the rain but now no cold weather too?
     
  5. racespecferrari

    racespecferrari F1 Veteran

    Jan 31, 2006
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    I have just ordered door and rear quarter windows in a polycarbonate material, what would be the best stuff to bond these in with, as I wasn't sure if standard bonding like your talking about here would eat the polycarbonate, I have ordered them from the company below

    http://www.plastics4performance.co.uk/
     
  6. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    I wasnt to concerned about this aspect as I feel the 308 is about one of the most ridgid cars you could find. But that is a good point to consider with other cars. I guess my main concern is how it holds up over time, and how hard it is to cut through later on to remove the glass. I got this one out pretty easy, but if I had to remove it later on, is this urethane stuff going to be a lot tougher? And, will this urethane oxidise or anything over time? Butyl stays tacky for decades, and really works really well. I just dont see all the trouble they claim about it.
     
  7. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Not many adhesives will stick to Polycarbonate. look into Sonnalastic 150, it is a Sonnoborn product. For the record, Polyurothane (spelling) is a vary flexible product. Look into CR Laurence Co. online for windshield products.
     
  8. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    The urethanes are very chemicly inert (very solvent resistant), they are also pretty UV resistant, especially with the carbon black that's generally used to give them (and the butyl) adhesives a black color.
     
  9. racespecferrari

    racespecferrari F1 Veteran

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    Thanks for that, I will do some research
     
  10. don_xvi

    don_xvi F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
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    My thoughts, exactly. I believe the new adhesives are intended to keep the windshield in place when a pass airbag bounces off of it. No need on vintage models, and a 308 GTB may be stiff, but a GTS sure isn't! Not sure how much of that translates into the windshield frame.
     
  11. geeforty

    geeforty Karting

    Oct 29, 2004
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    Nigel M
    I'm believe the screen sits on a bed of some rubber(butyl??) sealant, and the glass is held in with some metal spring clips pop riveted to the window frame, then covered with more sealant.

    I therefore think when refitting the screen it shouldn't be bonded ala modern cars, the butyl tape just acts as a non setting seal for the glass, the clips must allow a certain amount of give when the body flexes. The sealant is listed on the UK ferrari parts site.

    I will be putting my screen back in the same way it comes out hopefully - the factory method has been sufficient for the 32 years the screen has been in my car.
     
  12. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    Thanks guys, this was the kind of input I was looking for.
     
  13. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    Actually the clips just hold the trim. They are outside of the glass itself and don't actually hold the glass.They should also go on before the sealant.


    .
     
  14. geeforty

    geeforty Karting

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    Perhaps it varies per model, but talking to another GT4 owner who removed the windscreen from his car, mentioned that the clips hooked over the screen, a sort of V shape. one side holds the trim, the other presses against the glass, and that it was quite awkward to remove the glass......

    Should be fun to find out :)
     
  15. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    #15 Jdubbya, Apr 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Sorry, didn't notice you were referring to a GT4! My experience is with a '78 GTS. Below is a pic of one of my clips...kind of hard to see but the glass would sit just below the clip.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. geeforty

    geeforty Karting

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    Great pic. indeed on your car it looks like it just holds the outer trim, I will have to see if it is the same clip on a GT4 as a GTB(S)
     

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