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Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by JH, Apr 6, 2004.
I know it's not accurate, but it's quite disturbing.
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"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - D. Eisenhower
Is that his way of justifying it...? An attempt to make us mad at the enemy for "making us" go to war...?
The war actually doesn't COST us anything. It actually HELPS the economy. Liberal bastards will drone on and on about the 80 whatever billion which they claim would be better used to give free handouts.
Tens upon thousands of people are employed by companies like Boeing, Raytheon, Northrup Grummon, Lockheed Martin, and dozens upon dozens of other companies. Their lineup goes from run of the mill factory workers to highly paid and skilled engineers.
All those tanks, guns, rockets, ships, planes, carriers, unmanned vehicles, ammo, medical supplies, materials for Iraq reconstruction, etc etc etc etc, are made by American Companies!
Which use American Labor!
So that 80+ billion isn't getting burned in a big bonfire, it is going right back into the hands of the American people.
Actually, they are the ones paiyng for it. How is it you are aplying that it is comming back?
How is it "they" made you go to war? It was a choice of your own, not anyone saiyng og making you do it.
Jonas, have fun on my ignore list
"The war actually doesn't COST us anything. It actually HELPS the economy."
Yes it does, and yes it does.
These contractors you named are paid by the defense department WITH YOUR TAXES.
$80b bill has to be paid or the defense contractors will go bankrupt and all their employees will also go bankrupt. This bill will come due, just like your credit card bill comes due; and as you can no more pay off your debts without an income source, neither can the government.
Your income comes from working.
The government's income comes from taxes. You pay the Piper or pay you the consequences ......
Defense based economys are doomed to eventual failure - just ask the Soviet Union. While it creates jobs in the short term, unless you want to keep killing people to maintain your lifestyle, sooner or later these defense contracts will end. Then what?
3-5 million tax-payer jobs are leaving America (less income to the government), and the companies sending these jobs overseas get a tax break for doing it (less income for the government). 60% of all U.S. companies pay no taxes (no income for the government). The wealthy are getting tax breaks (less income for the government).....
The Butcher's bill is going to come due, and the government will have no income to pay it. Then what?
okay, I will.
The government gets it's income from it's printing presses. It creates "money", an inherently worthless object, which has value due to it's perceived rarity. Taxes take some of the "money" it created out of the system, to ensure the "money" stays rare.
Of course you don't want to print TOO MUCH or else you'll have too much cash in circulation - - then inflation happens. Given the USA has had 2%to 3% inflation for the past decade, it is not a current concern. The fed is constantly checking the economy to try and keep inflation at a slow steady 2 to 3%.
So the government "Created" out of thin air 80 billion dollars. If it just mailed everyone 5000$ check, then money would be more plentiful, and it's value would go down. Inflation.
Instead millions of people are meaningfully employed and earn a good living off of the money the government printed. The vast majority of which will eventually find it's way out of circulation (through taxes).
Oh and we're NOT a Soviet war based economy. How soon people forget, but the 3rd tallest building in the world was blown to pieces. I look at the Manhattan skyline in disbelief that something like this could Happen. I still am in denial... just how could people do something like this???
This moment, as I type this message, there are people in the world who would like nothing more than to see another disaster befall the American people.
Just think what would happen if the Congress, the Empire State Building, the Stock Exchange, Disneyland, a major airport, would get a terrorist attack. There are people who are planning it right now, somewhere in the world.
Thankfully we have a proactive government who knows appeasement is NOT an option. There is no reasoning with lunatics. So we shall send them to meet Allah alittle bit sooner.
Iraq is the first step. The little WMD debacle is just to hide the truth. We're not going to take **** from ANYONE, and if you think about Phucking with us, look at Iraq.
We got the whole middle east scared **** that they'll be next. Saudi Arabia, are you listening? Iran, are you listening? Syria, are you listening? You fund terrorism, you're next.
I pray these efforts will make it so NOONE has to be scared that their office building will be blown up. Or the airport they work at. Or their theme park. Or their government building. Or the shopping mall.
It's us or them, and that's the bottom line.
Jonas, no one called ME up and said, "hey, we've got X amount of your tax dollars here; do you mind if we pour it into war, rather than education, healthcare, SOCIAL EFFING SECURITY, etc....?"
You think the cost of war is disturbing? Try the national debt. Someday it's going to pass the nation's GDP:
Its true people are surely planning another attack on the US, but the fact is that someone out there is always going to want to attachk the US its a sad truth, its impossible to prevent, no matter how many billions of dollars are spent on the war.
Sorry DES, I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about the Iraqis. Please accept my apoligy.
Shouldn't you at least spend the money fighting the "enemy" directly, instead of fighting someone else due to some convoluted hypothetical reasoning?
Shouldn't you expend your money/lives/resources in a way that makes it harder for your enemies to survive and recruit more people, instead of presenting them with targets, opportunities, and a growing list of grievances which will grow into causes?
Dubya has squandered $100 billion, possibly $200 billion, and actually created more terrorist recruits and resentment amongst a population that will be encouraged to take revenge by terroristic acts. It's bound to happen if you you kill around 30,000 people, mostly innocent. You can be sure America's enemies are exploiting this to maximum advantage.
Who's the terrorist?
I agree, one definate byproduct of the iraqi occupation will be more iraqis that resent the US, its an inevitable cycle.
The comment about spending the "war" dollars here helps the economy is a hoot. The difference is that when you spend the money here for things here, someone gets to use them. Little things like better schools, better roads, etc. We'll do without by spending for war, and we'll suffer for that. Notice how much better things were when we cut back what we spent for war, and spent it on social issues, the people got the benefit of that spending and the entire boat rose on the rising tide. We spend for war, we lose those benefits.
I'm not against war per se. There are times when we have to defend ourselves. This wasn't one of those times, we were talking into it with untrue statements, and substantial hype.
I don't mind paying for the war if it means taking the fight to the terrorists back yard instead of New York or Chicago.
Jonas: dont worry,you are not paying for it anyway.(as a matter of fact you are not paying anything to help the rest of the World)
Your high taxes on income and anything you buy only serve to support your socialist,lazy government and your overblown ,inefficient welfare system.
NY Joe, the scary thing about you is you're easily manipulated.
If you think America alone can take on all of the middle east in the fashion it is "handling" Iraq, then might I volunteer your a$$ onto the troop ship first. Families of U.S. soldiers actually serving are already starting to howl and big mouths like you who haven't seen bullet or roadside bomb one are so fvcking cavalier about violence which you know you won't be around to witness or combat for that matter.
Yeah, a nice set a balls you have. Sit down and shut up.
The following is a poem made up entirely of actual quotes from George W. Bush. The quotes have been arranged for aesthetic reasons only by Washington Post writer Richard Thompson.
MAKE THE PIE HIGHER
by George W. Bush
I think we all agree, the past is over.
This is still a dangerous world.
It's a world of madmen and uncertainty
and potential mental losses.
Rarely is the question asked
Is our children learning?
Will the highways of the internet
become more few?
How many hands have I shaked?
They misunderestimate me.
I am a pitbull on the pantleg of opportunity.
I know that the human being
and the fish can coexist.
Families is where our nation finds hope,
where our wings take dream.
Put food on your family!
Knock down the tollbooth!
Make the pie higher! Make the pie higher!
Note from Nick- "Exactly, GW. Exactly."
Fact: Before the Gulf War, Iraq had the 2nd largest army in the world. The Saudi's were terrified that after Kuwait, they'd be next. Hence our intervention using their soil for our bases.
Violence is always *The* last resort, and I wish that not a single person had to be injured. But if little Israel could kick the rest of the middle east's ass by itself.. I won't even comment on what we could do. Unlike despots, we possess self restraint. We will never war with the entire middle east, and I don't know why you brought it up.
What I did say though, was by attacking Iraq we put out the word that terrorism will not be tolerated. Saddam, an, evil, torturing, genocidal dictator is someone who will not be missed. Should our reconstruction lead to a democratic and prosperous Iraq, then so be it. I personally think the country would have to be split into three seperate provinces or even seperate countries for it to be a success, but lets not delve off topic here.... Back to replying to your commentary....
I havn't seen a roadside bomb? You're damn right. I hope I never have to. I hope that in the United States, noone has to. Others have not been so fortunate. KMS, my cousin was on the 60th floor of the WTC on 9/11. He escaped with barely 10 minutes to spare. He lost several co-workers who listened to the annoucement from rescuers to "Remain calm and in your office until further notice." I have friends who lost relatives. Most people in NYC know someone who was affected. I sincerely hope nothing of this sort ever happens again.
Though I never had the pleasure to serve in the military, I do have family members who are currently and have been in the Marines, Navy, and Coast Guard. My uncle served the U.S. in WWII, fighting the country he had came from only afew years earlier. Both my grandparents served in the Navy. Numerous other relatives served in Vietnam. I considered joining the Air Force, but things occured in my life that led to otherwise. If I had joined, I wouldn't regret it one bit. I have close friends who served in the first Gulf War, and some who are currently serving in Iraq.
So, no I am not on a high horse, nor am I insulated from the realities of what is going on. Every day I see the headline like "5 more dead in Iraq," I feel for each and every family and what they must be going through. It is a terrible situation we are in, but we will not and can not be pacifistic.
Hey, no sweat...
Hey, No355Yet, that's hilarious...!
If you werent so stupid, you would know that world war II helped the US and many other countries out of the great depression. It helped the economy then and its going to help the economy now. Other countries in the world do not have such a booming and thriving economy as denmark.
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Tim why bother ?
why? Because, contrary to what jonas thinks, denmark is not the be all end all model of government and economy (infact its pretty far off). He started this thread to suggest that the US makes bad decisions because its citizens are inherrently violent. Hes been doing this for as long as i can remember.
Well Tim. I will have to read about all the civilized clean model Europeans.
Of course it will have to be the very recent brief history.