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Cost to re-trim Daytona

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by MarkL, Feb 2, 2004.

  1. MarkL

    MarkL Karting
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 3, 2003
    174
    Got a call from my upholster today letting me know that I could pick up my seats, dash and other leather bits he has had for about a year. Since my car is far from ready to be finish trimmed, I wanted to get what was done out of his shop and safely stored. Expecting a bill in the $3000 range for work done to date, I was floored when he presented me with nearly a $10,000 bill for LABOR! This is the Midwest for god's sake. Guess you can get screwed anywhere.

    I know these cars are expensive to restore but 200 hours for 2 seats, dash, and other misc. pieces? He had to do no disassembly and I provided mousehair and leather seat covers from Re-Originals. The deal was that he would do my work when he was slow, since I was not in a hurry. He did have to replace the cushions, but this is crazy.

    Am I not being realistic or does this seem way over the top?
     
  2. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    I just had my dash totally redone in the correct mousehair and had my seats restored. The door panels and center console were also re-dyed at the same time, and one small crack in the leather on the drivers door was repaired.

    I provided the seat covers. I also bought one of the reproduction Ferrari wood steering wheels since it is appropriate to my early production Daytona (this added $1500 to overall costs).

    My seats were a real mess. The metal frame of the drivers seat was twisted and broken. A new frame section had to be fabricated and welded in place. Also, all the stuffing and foam was replaced. The seats came back perfect (except one section will have to be re-dyed due to poor adhesion :(

    The dash backing in my car was pretty messed up as well. It had to have some repair work done. The dash, door panels and center console all look like new. They are perfect. He also fixed my cars clock. This involved cutting it apart and replacing all the internals with modern stuff and then soldering the housing back together. It looks original and works perfectly now.

    My total bill, including the cost of the mousehair, steering wheel, clock repair, dye, foam, leather..... $6,800.00


    Terry
     
  3. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    That's a good price. (Even if by using non original parts to fix your clock he ruined the car. :) )
     
  4. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Yea.... but he only ruined it if anyone actually removes the clock and thus discovers my subterfuge! That is as long as you guys help keep my secret.

    Then again.... the very fact the clock actually works now and gives the correct time is a sure fire giveaway that its not original! Drat! Foiled again!



    Terry
     
  5. Bob308GTS

    Bob308GTS Formula 3

    Sep 26, 2001
    1,105
    Aurora,IL
    Full Name:
    Bob Campen
    Mark, please list the name of this guy. The price is so far out of line it's crazy
     
  6. tifosi

    tifosi F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Sep 5, 2001
    5,382
    texas
    Full Name:
    Tom D
    did he give you an intial indication of price, time etc? 10k sounds really out of wack. How well do you know him? could be trying to extort the money from you in return for the seats
     
  7. MarkL

    MarkL Karting
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 3, 2003
    174
    The shop is well known in my area and has been used many times by the Guy doing most of my restoration. I never asked him to bid the work as he was going to do it between other jobs on a T & M basis. I was told the price would be fair since I would not be preasuring him to finish. Sounded like a win/win to me. I would touch base with him periodically to see how things were going. Other than complaining about some dificulties with the mousehair on the dash the job seemed uneventful.

    I have not paid him yet, nor have I picked up what is done. Wanted to see what others have paid for similar work before I let him have it!

    I'll post his name if things don't go well. Hopefully I will be able to resolve it peacefully
     
  8. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    15,595
    Savannah
    Full Name:
    name
    MARK, i dont own a daytona but i do deal with fine leather and various woods in our business jets. there is no way in hell it should cost you 10k for the work as you described. come to an agreement with him or sue the crap out of him. best of luck to you. i love the daytona!
     
  9. Rock

    Rock Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2003
    1,652
    Toronto, Canada
    Full Name:
    Rocco
    I restore ferraris here in Canada, and a full interior restoration for a daytona will cost 12-15,000 cdn (9-11,000 us) . That price includes rug and all trim. If you are installing the interior it will be less.
     
  10. nickm

    nickm Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2004
    320
    Ventura Ca.
    Ridiculous, I have an upholstery guy who has done dozens of interiors for me (911's) If you provided everything, his job could be done in a few days to a week. If he's good, then he could probably redo the 2 seats in a day. Daytona seats cant be that much different that any other seats. All the hard work was already done for this guy, ie. the seat stitching. I would have flipped. My guy here in CA (who regularily works on custom $50K-$100K hotrods, dreaming up one of a kind interiors, finished with all leather, faux suede healiners, totally custom seats, scratch built centerconsols, etc..etc...) He is probably one of the best upholstery guys around (he just won "Best of Show" interior at the National Roadster Show which was formally known as the Oakland Roadster Show). His TOTALY custom interiors go for about $8K. This includes materials! I would tell that upholstery guy to remove all the covers and give them back in perfect cond. Somehow, you are being thought of as an idiot with lots of money. I wish you the best of luck sorting this out.
     
  11. nickm

    nickm Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2004
    320
    Ventura Ca.
    Oh yeah, forgot...he's in Southern CA. where a totally AVERAGE house in our area is almost $500K.
     
  12. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
    Advising Moderator

    Jul 20, 2003
    42,833
    SFPD
    Full Name:
    Dirty Harry
  13. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    nickandcindy....

    Im a huge 911 fanatic, have owned 10+. I currently have a '69 911S hotrod that im doing a full new RS interior on. Including buying new lightweight seats, RS carpets, RS door panels and restoring the rest of the interior its costing a total of about $2,800. This kind of stuff for a 911 is cheap (also very well made... I LOVE P-cars!).

    The Ferrari is a whole different ball game. Daytona seats can be a nightmare. A new seat cover kit alone costs $2,400. The mousehair material alone for the dash costs $800 and has to be custom sewn and fitted. Seat foam and support restoration.... no kits out there it has to be hand made. You can buy brand new seats, perfect for only $6,800 a set! All the materials and stuff on the Ferrari are expensive. The headlining is pleated and a real *****....

    That said and given that Mark provided the seat kit.... this guy seems to have overcharged by a good bit. The dash, seats, door panels and headliner on a Daytona are complicated.... all the rest is really pretty simple. I cant see how $10K is justified. The materials he used may have cost $3K max....


    Terry
     
  14. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    9,377
    predestined
    Full Name:
    Scott
    I got a ball park price for a complete new interior for my 330 4HL from a high quality and reliable source. Top to bottom new materials, labor, everything to original Ferrari factory spec. would be about about $12 - $15K.
     
  15. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    You guys are getting ripped off. You should be able to have the entire interior of almost any Ferrari re-done including carpet, seats, dash and door panels done for well under $5k or so. You need to go to a good upholstery shop and have the job done. The mistake people make is they carry the car to a place that is known for doing Ferraris that has learned they can charge outrageous prices and Ferrari owners will pay. I had my TR and Boxer dashes both recovered in Connely leather by John Dutton of The Mad Stichers(770.455.7505) for $400 each. I did remove and carry him the dash myself though. I challange anyone that wants to look at my Boxer dash and show me where it looks different than one direct from the factory. It's not rocket science folks and it's not hard to match the leather, color and stiching used in Ferraris. After all, Ferrari interiors are not even close to being the best made out there to begin with. Same thing with simple jobs like brakes, exhaust, alignment and the likes. A quality mechanic that has never even seen a Ferrari can do the job just fine for well less than mechanics that have already learned how easy it is the steal from Ferrari owners. Now, of course things are a little different with the modern Dinos and Ferraris with all the computers and F1 transmission crap. But, for a 328 back, any quality mechanic can do almost any job just fine.
     
  16. Ferrari_UK

    Ferrari_UK Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2002
    1,277
    England
    Full Name:
    Jeff Howe
    Welcome to the board Rocco !

    Let's get that metalwork moving !
     
  17. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Now Frank.... trolling again I see!

    Leather is not mousehair. The material alone, direct from the supplier, cost $800. The seat kits are $2500. Door panels are $1400. Carpet kit is about $1,000. So... we still dont have any rubber seals, no headliner, no rear cockpit panels, no seat foam, no unforseen repairs and no installation charges but were at $5,700. The seat kits and door panels and such are not going to be hand made from scratch for less than the kits costs.... and if hand made would be very unlikely to really match originals.

    Your not suggesting we have our Ferrari restored to non-original specs are you? God forbid!!!

    You still sure the entire interior can be re-done for "well under $5K?"

    BTW: In reference to general mechanical work, I do tend to agree with you. Changing the timing belt on a 308 just isnt that different from changing one on a Honda. Same for a brake job or such. Most "Ferrari" mechanical repairs on the older cars just shouldnt cost and arm and a leg. Of coarse, I do my own repairs so they dont!


    Terry
     
  18. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    Terry, while I understand you would have to buy the mouse hair and rubber seals specific for the car, all the leather covered panels and foam cushions can be fabricated by a good interior guy. And, Connely leather is Connely leather whether it is in a Ferrari or another marque. John at the Mad Stichers has a room full of Connely hides and dies to match any Ferrari color, pattern and grain made. I know when he did my TR and Boxer dashes he did a perfect match on color and stitching . You've seen my Boxer, could you tell the dash had been recovered ? He also redid the pleated headliner in my ex-330GTC which also looked as original as anything from Italy. After all, these new "kits" you bought were not made by the same people that made the interior that was originally in your car anyway. So why do you believe these modern day "kit" makers can do any better job than a local professional like John Dutton. If your Ferrari needed repainting, you wouldn't buy pre-painted body panels from Italy ...or paint kits...or send the car there for painting ? IMHO, John Dutton is to interiors what Bo Pirkle is to paint and body.
     
  19. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Frank..... Im sure John is quite capable of making the parts from scratch and making them correctly. However, since he is going to be low on the learning curve (unless he has done dozens of Daytonas in the last couple of years) its going to take time. John... just like Bo.... is going to end up not being so cheap. Perhaps he would be as cheap or even a bit cheaper than buying a kit.... but I still do not believe he would retrim an entire Daytona interior from scratch, hand sewing all the panels and such for less than $5K. Just like Bo is not going to paint a Daytona for $3500....


    Terry
     
  20. nickm

    nickm Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2004
    320
    Ventura Ca.
    $2,400 for the Daytona seat covers is what that company charges for them. That doesnt mean they are worth the $$, & it doesn't mean that they cant be made by a great upholstery guy for less. Much less! That leather for the seats is actually pretty cheap, and how long do you think it actually takes to stitch up a pair of seats? The Daytona seats arent "magical" seats, (I have a friend that owned a Daytona and sold it about a year ago) they can be duplicated just like any other seats. And if done by the right person, they can look just as nice. My upholstery guy almost reupholstered the seats in that Daytona & I guarantee you that he wasn't going to be charging $2400. My buddy would have laughed at my upholstery guy. Those seats could have probably been done from scratch in about 3 days. At $280 a day for labor your looking at only $840 for labor plus a few hundred dollars for the leather. Making a pair of seats (from my guy) costing probably just a hair over a thousand bucks. Now granted, if the upholstery guy is good, he could charge you what ever he wants, 'cause you have no choise but to pay. And...if you are going to go pulling up to his shop pretending you are MR GQ. cool Ferrari Daytona owner, dressed up like you are "someone", you will get screwed. No doubt about it. He will look at you like you are a big dork who knows nothing about cars, then charge you $5000 for your seats. Guaranteed. However, if you take your seats out of the car yourself (I know, lots a hard work...whew!) throw them in the back of your truck, then take them to the upholstery guy, you will get a whole different price, I will bet you $$.
     
  21. billb

    billb Formula Junior
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jun 4, 2001
    407
    Shorewood, IL
    Full Name:
    Bill Badurski
    As Mark initially and clearly stated, he took the loose parts to the shop. He did not drive up trying to look like a "cool Daytona owner". The Re-Originals catalog shows door panels at $1100 a pair, seat covers at $2400 a pair, and dash material at $140. That leaves about $6k for labor. Sounds outlandish to me.
     
  22. nickm

    nickm Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2004
    320
    Ventura Ca.
    My mistake if what I wrote came across like that. I wasnt really saying that was how Mark acted. I meant that a Ferrari owner has to go out of his (or her) way to get reasonable prices on things like interior work. But Im sure we all new that already. Also...Ferrari owners are obviously unfairly taken advantage of on things like these interior parts. If somebody driving a custom 1930's-50's custom rod can get a totally custom leather interior made from scratch (one-off, custom everything) including carpet and headliner for $8,000 including the materials, then there is no reason you shouldnt be able to get your Ferrari done for the same price or much less. I say much less $$, because the upholstery guy has your seats and doorpanels to cut apart & make patterns off, (if you give him your seats and panels and carpet etc....) He then simply has to replicate a seat or door panel. Any reasonable person should be able to figure that it shouldnt cost $2,400 for some leather covers
    then pay a guy 200 hours for labor to put those seats together and cover a dash. If anybody else is needing complicated seats like these done, just give me a email & I will introduce you to my reasonably priced, award winning upolstery guy, who has has had cars at Pebble Beach & the Oakland Roadster show & done many $100K autos, jets, personal helicopters, stunt airplanes and even a few yahts. (correct spelling?)
     
  23. nickm

    nickm Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2004
    320
    Ventura Ca.
    Whoops, forgot to mention he is also currently working on an old MBZ for the owner of the Robb Report, & did an interior on a '57 Abarth that I heard took best of show at a Phoenix car show recently. (we did the bodywork and paint on that same Abarth).
     
  24. MarkL

    MarkL Karting
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 3, 2003
    174
    Thank you to all who responded to my angst. A peaceful non-violent solution was achieved. Final price was just south of 6K and included reinstalation of all interior pieces and re-covering the dash with the correct mousehair. Still, more than I would like but I think fair given some of the obsticals he needed to overcome.

    One major problem were the seats. They needed to be completely rebuilt, including fabrication and welding of missing/broken tabs and brakets and shaping new foam. All resulting in more man hours than is normal.

    The other problem was that I had unknowingly purchased and insisted he use an incorrect mousehair. Last spring I finally found a source for the then unobtainable mousehair from LyleTanner Enterprises. Unfortunately for me the reason they still had it was because it looked right but did not have any elasticity of the original. Consequently, much time was spent trying to make the stuff follow all of the complex curves of the dash to a poor result. The proper mousehair is now again availible and should be a quick swap for the inferior stuff he had been cursing at.

    Bottom line was that although he had plenty of documentation of his problems and the hours he and his helper put into my interior, he was still willing to reduce his hours by almost 50%. The work done on my seats is exceptional and the dash will be completed correctly by end of the week.

    My big mistake in all of this was not buying a better car to restore!
     
  25. Graham

    Graham Rookie

    Jan 27, 2004
    4
    I have just done some work on the seats of my 400. The two front seats had new leather put on them, but the cushions were still in good shape, so I kept them. I had new leather put on the rear seat centre arm rest too. All the rest of the leather was reconditioned and re-coloured (rear seats, rear side panels, door panels, steering wheel and gear lever boot). I didn't touch the dash this time. Cost came to about US$1500 (using current currency exchange rates), and took 3 weeks. I removed the seats and panels myself, and re-installed them as well, so the cost was purely for the leather, labour and colouring. It was done by a professional leather upholstery company here in Auckland, New Zealand.

    Allowing for some differences in currencies and living costs between countries, perhaps $3000 would be the top comparative cost for what I had done (being quite generous!). Compared to the $10 000 for the Daytona, I would say you got a 'special' price! Over a year, and not completely redone with new leather either! Sounds like a 'Ferrari' rip off price! Bad luck.
     

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