Could we see McLaren revert to MP4-27?

I am really wondering if the FIA can allow that.

Reverting to the previous year car means benefiting from a whole season of data and testing time.

Since testing is limited, is it not a way to get around the ban?

 

New year=more testing, but not necessarily new car.

Teams design new cars based on the know how they got with previous cars, so if your theory was right they only would be able to do testing in their first year of existence.

 

Hummm, but doesn't the FIA expect new cars every year?
Otherwise, why would the chassis have to pass the stringent tests before every new season?

Also, there is no ban in testing once the season is over, after the last GP - as far as I know. Wouldn't that count as testing time for the next year if you use the same car?

Ecclestone is keen to bring "customer cars" for a B league, where smaller teams would use one year-old cars. This would certainly go against the limit on testing time.

 

Mclaren have ruled this move out per Autosport reporting.

 

I don't think I would rule out Mclaren bringing a hybrid 27/28 car and testing it at some point. Call it a 27 with lots of 28 bits.

 

I think that testing after the last race of the season is limited too.

Don't forget that many teams are using updated versions of their 2012 cars anyway, and that small teams like Marussia and the now defunct HRT almost never redesign their cars from scratch between seasons.

 

This is more reporter BS, I think.

They are always looking to create drama and a story where none exists. Remember, oh, about every year for the past 5 years, whenever Ferrari didn't podium in the first race, people here (and elsewhere) called for them to give up on the season and focus on the next year's car?

Is it possible that McLaren would go back to last year's car? I guess anything is possible. It's possible that Button starts performing to badly that they ditch him mid-season and try to grab someone else. Does that mean Button is on the chopping block? No, it's just that Whitmarsh chose his words carefully, and the dopey F1 press took the ball and ran with it and embellished it into a story where there was none.

 

I don't see it. Ferrari has started a few seasons really rough and were contenders near the end. Mac will get it's act together. I think there's a lot of pressure on Woking now from the management.

 

I also think that their old car would need a complete refreshening to keep the pace with the 2013 cars, so why would they bother?

 

It would be a logistical nightmare to move the cars, spares, and fixtures to Malaysia on such short notice.

 

Remember that McLaren once scrapped a car completely and instead updated the previous year's car, with reasonable success.

And Ferrari? By the latter part of 1969 the cars were so bad they went back to the 1968 engines for the last part of the season. And in 1971, Ickx elected to drive the 1970 car in some of the last races of the year.

 

If the car is still struggling after 5 or 6 GP's they may intro a B-Spec version heavily based upon last years car

 

I'm not sure a team can introduce a heavily revised car mid-season any more - the chassis, even the wheels, have to be homologated before the first race and can't be changed after that point. That's why McLaren's F duct in 2010 was so hard to copy, because the other teams were not allowed to revise their chassis to incorporate a similar duct.

Bodywork can be revised, but that might not address the fundamental issues in the 28, if they're around the pull rod suspension. Then again, when Ferrari introduced their pull rod front suspension car last year they were 1.5-2 seconds off the pace, and they were able to get most of that back via development...

Regarding updating the 27 - the chassis was previously homologated for 2012, but I wonder if that's still valid for 2013 use? If so, no chassis changes would be allowed.

 

There's no way McLaren are going to revert to last years car (if it is actually possible to do so).

They will be determined to make the 2013 car work and they have the engineering ability to succeed.

However, I think it's going to take quite a bit of time.

From listening to Martin Whitmarsh, Jenson Button and Sergio Perez during the Australian Grand Prix, it sounds to Me as if they have more than one problem area with the car and they're not sure which one is causing them the biggest issue.
They've basically said that there is an aero balance problem, a front to rear mechanical grip issue and a general ride issue.



I think one of their problems is that they have tried to adopt the front pull-rod suspension system and integrate it with their previous rear suspension concept that was designed and perfected for the push-rod system.

The problem here is, the front pull-rod suspension lowers the centre of gravity compared to the previous car and it may well also alter the weight distribution front to rear compared with last years car.

Then there are also significant aero changes that that the pull-rod suspension creates compared to a push-rod system, at the critical area around the lower section of the car.

Gary Anderson on the BBC noted that McLaren were using a lot of hi-viz paint around the rear end of the car during free practice, trying to figure where the air was moving - nothing unusual in that.
However, he'd noted that there were areas where you'd expect to find the paint moving into as the air follows a natural path, but the reality was that the air was not moving there. This he noted, meant that the rear of the car was not working as expected.

At the end of the day I suspect that they've badly underestimated how much work is involved in changing from a front push-rod suspension to a pull-rod system and how much it alters the car.
Ferrari had similar problems (to a lesser degree though), and had to learn the same lessons, so it can be done, the only problem is, there's no quick fix.

 

Great post Phil.

 

Air's a ***** that way!...... The airplane guys learnt this many, many years back. You can try & mess with it,, but it's gonna do what it wants, despite what your 'puters & CFD programs may claim......

Cheers,
Ian

 

I doubt they will as well, but that car is a pig! Did you see Button's front tire that Matchett pointed out onnthe first stop? Inside was shredded.....

 

There's almost too many variables that can affect the air flow for any engineer to truly master it but to be fair to the F1 engineers they do a pretty good job of it (normally!).

Basically what Gary Anderson had noted was that McLaren seemed to be suffering from some unexpected voids of air created by vacuums leading to the rear wing/diffuser area that were reducing the efficiency of both parts thus reducing the rear downforce (and throwing the cars front to rear balance off at the same time).

Again, this could be a side effect of the redistribution of the air from the front end, caused by the new pull-rod suspension.

Jenson told the BBC after the race that the team already knew that the super-soft tyres would only last three laps max and so he was told to push hard for those three laps.
He then added: "So can you imagine my surprise when they were completely shot after two laps!"

 

Totally agree, the weather did McLaren no favours at all.

I suspect they'd much prefer a totally wet race in Malaysia as it would level the playing field to a degree.

It's interesting to note how Jenson and Perez do not appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet.

Here's what Jenson's been saying: Jenson Button takes hope from Fernando Alonso | McLaren | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN.co.uk

I found this part worth noting:

"There are always strengths and weaknesses, and then it's about how many of each, but it's not the place we'd like to be at the start of a year. For us, a lot has changed over the winter with the car, and for most of the teams that's not been the case. They have developed what they had last season. We just took a very different approach. "

This seems to hint that they are struggling to fully understand changes that the front pull-rod suspension has made to the car.

He seems to be confident that they can overcome their problems (and I'm sure they can), but he gives the impression that it may take a fair bit of time (which realistically it might well do).



Now turning to Perez's comments: McLaren learning from Melbourne - Sergio Perez | McLaren | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN.co.uk

"Last weekend's race was a difficult one for everybody on the team, but it's shown us exactly what we need to do to close down the gap to the leaders," Perez said. "This weekend in Malaysia will be about trying to maximise the package we have while knowing that it's not going to be enough to allow us to fight for overall victory.

"Still, we know what we have to do - and I know that everybody within the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes team will be working incredibly hard to bring performance to the car. That may not happen in Malaysia, as it's so soon after the Australian Grand Prix, but we know it'll start coming soon."

He seems to think that after Melbourne McLaren have figured out exactly what is wrong with the car and will be able to sort it in a couple of races.

On this I'm not so sure. I think what Melbourne did teach McLaren is that they have more issues with their car than they first realised, but I'm not convinced that they have worked out the solutions to their problems already.

As I see it, yes McLaren know what they have to do - fix the problems that their car has, the only problem there is, first they have to figure out what exactly is wrong with it! - and that's the hard part!

 

without hamilton i predicted mclaren would struggle. that appears to be true but it's only been one race so can't draw too many conclusions, so we'll see.

 

The car is terrible, has nothing to do with the driving abilities of Perez and Button. I think it really just has to do with the front suspension being very hard to setup

 

+1.

Jenson has proved that he is plenty capable if the car is good. He's beaten Hamilton before.

That said, I've been proved right with my prediction that McLaren would slip down the grid.

 

Not gonna happen. It's just the first race. Mclaren are known to have a slow start and are one of the best developers in the field. The real race starts at Europe and everyone knows it. I just find it so strange and weird some smart aleck started this rumor.