Couldnt an Enzo beat a NASCAR?

You guys who think an Enzo can take a cup car in any venue at all are just plain nuts. The cup cars are full out race cars. Enzo's are road cars. Pick the course, pick the drivers, my money is on the cup cars every time. Handling wise, the cayman S is probably better than the Enzo, but it ain't no race car either. Do you guys seriously think a cup car can't generate more tha 1 lateral G which is about what an Enzo can pull? And anyone who thinks it doesn't take considerable skill and engineering to get 900HP and 9K RPM out of pushrod, iron block motor with a single 4 barrel carb AND have it live for 4+ hours is smoking a lot of funny weed. I don't know why I keep reading a lot of ignorant, condescending crap about NASCAR here. You guys need to take off the rossa corsa glasses and have an objective look at other cars and other race series besides the glorified parade laps that is today's F1. I have two F cars and love them, but they aren't sprinkled with rossa corsa magic dust that makes them better than everything else, and I love all forms of racing, although F1 and racing are becoming mutually exclusive terms anymore.

Dave

 

You do realize that Nascar engine builders generaqlly have 4 year engineering degrees from top notch universities? They still use the pushrod because it works, same reason as the new Z06... If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Pushrod still work just fine, and can make a ton of power.

Also, a point to make, Nascar drivers aren't rednecks anymore, and many have exotic cars. Example is that Tony Stewart has an orange Lamboghini Murcielago.

 

This has to be one of the dumbest posts I think I have read. A NASCAR car has not advanced in any direction in over 40 years. Same iron block motors, same sheet metal welded to tube frame chassis. Same guys chewing tobacca drivin em. Okay, maybe they have made some better heads, stronger cranks, etc, but its still about as advanced as a 1966 Chevy Impala running a small block Chevy motor. And there is nothing wrong with that, its just another class of racing. I would question if they either make, or even need 900 HP, seems like a lot to go 200 MPH. But guys on the street could make 700 HP or more by building these same engines back before I started to drive, and I'm soon 48, so this isnt rocket science. And after 40 years, just about anyone who can read long enough would know what parts you need to build one of these engines.

The Enzo cant run 500 miles without flying apart? I would be surprised if a sorted Enzo, stock, couldnt run well over 24 hours lapping Daytona nearly flat out, and not have any serious issues. I would even be surprised if a old carby 308 couldnt do it. A stock 1966 Impala could not however. In fact it probably couldnt last more than and hour.

But this premise of wonder, if a Enzo could lap faster is rather disengenuous to both. At LeMans, they enter cars of different displacement and allow them to be run in different classes. So you always see small bore cars out with the big stuff. You cant compare an Enzo to a NASCAR, they both operate with different rules and expectations.

 

I'm certainly no authority, that info is from the Oct 2001 Motor Sport magazine, which by chance was sitting on top of the pile...the issue is titled "200 mph Heroes" and goes through the various times that 200 mph was broken, with a nice piece on oval racing thrown in: the Rockingham oval in England was about to open, and the press was talking it up.

 

The Caymen S is the new sports car from Porsche, basically a Boxster with a roof. The Cayenne is the SUV to which you are referring.

 

OMG someone who knows who Miguel is and one of his lap times !!!!! Cool

How about Val Rossi in a Enzo ????????? Hmmmmmmmmmm

Ben

 

Good googly moogly, the reading comprehension skills are just lacking. About the only factual thing in your post is "You can't compare an Enzo to a NASCAR, they both operate with different rules and expectations."

I was at Laguna Seca two years ago when all manner of cars were on the track from POC to the LeMans cars, vintage LeMans cars and vintage stock cars. The stock cars in and of themselves have not only advanced in the last 40 years but even the last 5. Most of that is areas of aerodynamics and safety equipment including rollcage design. That they are as you say "advanced as a 1966 Iimpala" is by design of the rules laid out by NASCAR. Were those to be upgraded to say, German DTM standards, then that's where they would be. Most of the companies involved in NASCAR have other forms of more advanced race cars participating in different series.

The days of the tobacco chewing nascar driver are long gone with Mark Martin being one of the last of that generation and he was never a good ol boy type racer.

Why don't you do some research on what a NASCAR engine does and does not put out? Visit or call a shop that dynos the engines since you "doubt" they even put that much out. Why not find a builder and discover whether they do indeed use the same parts and building methods from "40 years ago"? If building these engines was so easy then one team owners and driver/owner teams wouldn't have such a damn tough time competing with the big money multiple team owners like Roush. Of course there are guys on the street that could build these kinds of engines. Why aren't they racing? Why aren't they making money in the sport today? I know guys back in Jersey with 10 second street cars but just couldn't make the cross over to professional racing. Could it be that the entire endeavor is just a bit more difficult than it would seem on the surface?

I'll never understand why people choose to open their mouth and guess about things that can be researched. We live in a world where it's even less than 6 degrees of seperation to find anyone or thing. Still, we have this kind of nonsense because people are more comfortable with their stupidity than with actual knowledge.

 

Well then...I guess it's safe to say you'd be surprised - on both accounts.

I've always enjoyed the Mark Twain quote,

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people assume you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt,"

and *boy* does it ever apply to this thread!

 

Well boys, I actually am an authority and tend to know what is what around a racing car. It's what I do for a living--and I have been reasonably successful at it. So to the point being made:

Lolaman had it right (Of course he has some real racing experience-so he would know!) the Nextel Cup car would be superior at a track like Atlanta, with an unrestricted engine. At Daytona or Talledega it would be closer, but the nod still goes to the Nextel Cup car.

Of course, we need to define the parameters on the Enzo some--Are we talking about a stock street legal car with production tires? Or are we talking an enzo modified to "race car status". Makes a big difference!! Just street tire to race rubber the difference is so astounding that you would not understand. I doubt there is a street legal tire that could handle the loads on the banking at those speeds. (Street tires are rated at speed in a straight line, no cornering loads.)

Even if you put race rubber on the Enzo, my guess is that the outside wheel bearings would fail in under one hour. (Probably rear first.) And there is a good chance that you would fail the suspension also. On this I am certain.

Okay so the Enzo has some cool aero features that everyone likes-but do you know that a downforce configuration Nextel Cup Car produces about 2000 lbs downforce at 200 MPH? Not too shabby! And with less drag than an Enzo.

The difference is that any race car is a vehicle specifically designed for one purpose, and everything on that car is there to help achieve that purpose. No amount of wishful thinking can make a street car, even an Enzo compete on that level.

Now, take an Enzo and make it into an FIA GT car, and that would be different. (Oh wait, that would be a Maserati MC12-And I have raced one of those, and it was a complete pig!)

 

thank you for being the vioce of reason. i have been fortunate enough to spend a good bit of time in various cup team shops and i assure you, there is NOTHING low tech in the methods in which these engines are made. they are extreme and as tom said, they really do rev 9k! this is insane rotating mass spinning at crazy speeds...and they even last long enough to do the huge burn out!

additionally, at a track like charlotte, atlanta, or texas, a cup car would leave an enzo for dead. w/ close to 900hp, these cars get off the corners like a sling shot!

 

troll!

so these low tech cup engine builders don't know a thing or two about balance and making a motor breath huh?

 

He said they hit 210 on the quarter mile straightaways, not 210 in the quarter mile.

 

See that folks. One degree of seperation on a message board to someone who has facts on the Enzo. I didn't even think about wheel bearing loads or suspension failure.

 

[Ferrari_lvr]But...but....that can't be. The Ferrari is superior in every way. The NASCAR is crap. It can't beat an Enzo. U R crazy. I still say the Enzo wins on any track, any day. Have you even ever *seen* one? I have, and it was FAST.[/Ferrari_lvr]



Thanks VERY much for your input, lmpdesigner! Great points you made about suspension components and wheel bearings - things I hadn't even considered. Hopefully, this issue will FINALLY be put to rest.

 

You'll never convince them all. They sleep in Ferrari print pajamas in mock FI beds!

 

No way at an oval that any supercar could beat a NASCAR because a NASCAR is basicly a plasic body with a steel chassis,4tires and a big ass V-8 engine which makes anywhere from 800hp-900hp. No it wouldn't beat a NASCAR in a drag either, i highly doubt even faster cars like the Mclaren F1 or Veyron would to. The only Supercar streetable that i see that could go heads up with a NASCAR is the CCR or the CCX thats about it otherwise you would have to turn to a supertunner car like the Hennssey Viper T1000TT, I know that would beat a NASCAR stright up because that could beat almost anything from a standing mile including a Camp car.

Its still unfair to even matchup a NASCAR to an Enzo in the first place because an Enzo is a pure supercar while a NASCAR is a stockcar/racecar so its not streetlegal, and makes more HP, lighter and faster overall.

The best bet would be to matchup a car from GT1 like the MC12, C6R, S7-R or RGT up against a NASCAR i think that would be more fair because they are both pure race cars.

Id like to see a Ferrari FXX go headsup with a Viper competion coupe the ones on GT racing that races the cadillacs, porsches, vettes, astons and Skylines. I think that would be more of a fair matchup than something that you know one will win by a landslide.

 

Comparing a race car to a road car is kinda silly. If we want to compare Nascar to Ferrari, let's compare the Cup cars to Ferrari's Formula One car. To fan the flames from the other side...Ford used a Nascar engine in the Gt-40 to beat Ferrari at the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Of course it took seven liters (427 cubic inches) of Nascar engine to beat the four liter Ferrari's. The nearly twice as big pushrod tractor (Nascar Ford) engine was loafing along while the Ferrari's were screaming trying to produce the same amount of power from an engine almost half the displacement. If Ferrari had matched the displacement with a seven liter V-12, I think the outcome would have been much different. By the way, if you want to talk amazing performance...let's look at the current 600cc sportbikes available at your local bike dealer. 120 horsepower from 600cc...200 horsepower per liter or 3.28 horsepower per cubic inch (355 cubic inch Nascar at 900 HP is 2.54 HP per cubic inch) and the bike weighs about 3 pounds per horsepower. If you need more, the same dealer has a literbike that, while not as impressive as far as horsepower to displacement goes, none the less has about 50 percent more horsepower and nearly the same weight or about one horsepower per kilo (2.2 pounds per horsepower). Of course, these are lowly street bikes...anybody want to talk MotoGP?

 

It still doesn't matter. They don't even break 200 at the super speedways (NOT avg speed, I'm talking about max trap speeds) because of the restrictor plates. That guy I replied to already messed up everything else he said, i.e. restricted engine have 770hp.

 

If the Enzo is such a great race-car then why dosent Ferrari use it in Lemans?? Even the super-rich privateers do not use it. hmmmmmmm, I wonder why???

I hate Nascar with a passion, but only a fool would think that a Enzo would beat a stockcar in anything but a ego contest.

with that said I would rather watch an Enzo parrallel park for 4 hours than watch a Nascar race.

 

as we are all discussing whether or not an enzo can compete with, or beat, a nascar on an oval track, lets ask ourselves whether or not a nascar could compete with or beat an enzo on an F1 track.....and i think its safe to say the answer is no, never, HELL no......so i think its fair to assume that a nascar would beat an enzo on and oval track and that an enzo would beat a nascar on an F1 track...

these are cars built to compete in two highly opposite events....nevertheless, they are bad ass!!!

dragging, on the otherhand, is a completely different story

 

It was Abraham Lincoln who said that, not "Samuel Clemens".

And dont anyone think for a second that NASCAR isnt a closed and very selected "sport". And I would use the word "sport" rather loosley. I think its rigged from the word go, and anyone who thinks they will get in will be shoved into the wall. There are some who believe Earnhart was "taken out" because he didnt play by the rules. Allegations the seat belts were cut. NASCAR ran the show, ran thier own investigation, and no one outside ever seen anything that NASCAR didnt want them to see. The whole damn thing stinks to high heaven, IMO. Its a parade of billboards and marketing more than its any kind of stupid race, and its all coreographed to keep the masses entertained. F1 may be coreographed too, but at least its a hell of lot more advanced.

As to how high tech it is, guys were lapping Daytona at 200 plus over 30 years ago, running mostly off the shelf standard car parts. Hell, a stock Dodge Super Bee 440 six pack could run 165 MPH plus right off the show room floor, and you could beat the crap out of them almost endlessly. The reason the speeds increased had more to do with downsized cars that have a much smaller frontal area, hence a dramatic loss of drag. Running the same engines the cars would inherently run faster, and thats where the restrictor plates came in.

 

There are those who believe we never landed on the moon, that a plane never hit the Pentagon, that Andy Kaufman faked his own death, that Elvis is still alive, and that the Holocaust never actually happened, too.

 

And FWIW, if you search any number of online quotation reference sites, you'll see variations on the theme attributed to both Twain and Lincoln...

 

The enzo is a ROAD CAR..the NASCAR..is a RACE CAR!! Get that through your thick skulls people!!!

The Enzo would be dead in the water before the checkerd flag dropped. You guys have a serious issue with anything beating Ferrari at anything.
You just cannot comapire the 2!! geezus H!!

Fact of the matter..Ferrari as a whole are NOT all they are cracked up to be. You know that and I know that. Wonderful road cars yes..but put them up against a c6Z06 for half the price and watch you face fall to the floor from the beating you will recive.

And for the guy who thinks the C6R would be a better race angainst the ENZO..ha the C6R would leave the ENZO wondering what happened to its doors!

And for those of you that say its easy to build a 900 hp engine that will run a 9000RPM almost all day long..How about You build one and run it in a race car for 4 hrs at 9000RPM? Put your money where you mouth is. Otherwise zip it, and let the big boys play.