Countach Downdraft 1985 to 1988.5

FIA Homologation is truly meaningless to people that don't own a car that was FIA Homologated, its actually a moot point to them, but to those who own a car that was FIA Homologated (say @ 300 Downdraft owners), it does means something. The status quo will always be that people who own FIA Homologated cars are the ones who value the FIA Homolgation, and we don't expect any different!
You can clearly see the effect of FIA Homologation in the hearts & minds of enthusiasts in the Porsche & the Ferrari world, and it is indisputable that it translates to desire & value, because to those who appreciate or 'get' it, the Certification underscores or speaks to the manufacturer's intent for the car. Some people just love the Motorsports linkage that the FIA Homologation conveys, and that's enough for them. I have a client who has a collection of @ a dozen cars all of which are factory FIA Homologated cars as one of the criteria. A prime example of the impact of the FIA Homologation lies with the 288 GTO whose @ 272 owners love the fact that these cars are FIA Homologated, and it makes the car more special to them. I believe the FIA Homologation is one of the things that has made these cars become much more valuable in recent years. Anyone astute will note that FIA Homologated 1975 930s are much more valuable than the 1976 or 1977 cars, for example. In conclusion, unless you own a Downdraft, I say, don't worry about the FIA Homologation and it's value, or lack thereof. That said, trying to get Downdraft owners who think the FIA Homologation is meaningful to them to change their minds is completely futile.

As regards power, we are getting @ 415 bhp for a standard unmodified Fuelie and @ 455 bhp for a standard Downdraft, so, we look forward to exploring your claim that Valentino asserts that the Fuelie Countach makes more power than the DD at mid to high rpm, because our findings are exactly the opposite. Ever the diplomat, I won't be surprised if he denies he ever said that! Regardless, when I speak to him next, I'll ask him to verify his thoughts and expand on this, then, I'll speak with the man responsible for both variants of engine, Chief Engineer Luigi Marmiroli himself, to see what light he can shed in terms of raw data & material to supplement what he already has supplied to me. As you know, this is a topic we love to debate in this thread, and we don't need much encouragement!

As regards tuning, I do agree with Valentino that the Downdraft is is less complex and easier to tune, that much is obvious and debunks the often-parroted theory to the contrary, as I have been asserting for years.

Lastly, regarding a Countach being a Countach, well, that's a fair generalization, but, the different variants from LP400 to 25th are in fact very different, with that being the operative word. If a guy comes to me looking for a Countach, I can't sell him any Countach and say 'a Countach is a Countach'! I have to know what specific variant he is looking for. I guess the point I want to make is we need to get over this pervasive notion that because the virtue of Downdrafts are being extolled in the Downdraft thread somehow means other variants are being disparaged. I don't see Periscopa owners ever get defensive or insecure, for example. We all need to be able to appreciate the Downdraft for the amazing car it is, whether we own one or not, if we here are in a thread created to do just that! That said, I love all Countachs, despite the indisputable fact that they were not all created equal, and that much is something I think we can all accept in a mature way.

 

FWIW , I went ahead and reached out to Ing. Luigi Marmiroli, and asked him to send us the original factory performance data sheets for the Countach LP 112D motore L507 V4, both Carburatori & Iniezione. This way, we will have the original horsepower & torque data for both the Downdraft and Fuelie throughout the revs range, and can compare what's going on @ mid to high rpms.

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Sadly I don't, although I have posted some of the 88.5 Brussels Salon car in the thread.

Robert noted the chassis number way back in the thread, Greg was a good friend and when I had my first Downdraft 30 years ago, I would look after this car for him as well, at the time the car was UK-registered E 734 KYL, fond memories.

I asked for the VIN previously and don't recall if it was shared or not, sorry I'm not in a location where I can be too helpful with these questions.

 

Thoughts?

Exactly.

Whilst many cars of insignificance were FIA Homologated, I have noted for many years that FIA Homologated examples of the more iconic Supercar types of car really benefit in value from this Certification because (as I have explained before) it speaks to the manufacturer's regard for the car's ability, and their intent. If nothing else, that Motorsports linkage is undeniably cool to owners, and as we know, people pay up for cool stuff, just because, well, its cool.

Hope you are well, and GLA12942 too.

 

Your absence on this thread for quite a while until yesterday was marked by peaceful discourse week after week now you're back, and here we go again

My Private Treaty business is somewhat specialized and I just focus just on the Vintage & the Supercars I like, own or have owned, because this way I can help my clients better, so nary a Maserati crosses my desk http://www.instagram.com/joesackeyclassics and I plan to keep it that way

Allow me to describe what Valentino does for me & my clients, as you seem a bit confused. What he does is drive the car a not inconsiderable distance over a number of miles, and report back what is happening with the car as it drives, exactly as he did at the Lamborghini factory for @ 30 plus years, and exactly as he did for our ex-Mimran Downdraft. His invaluable post-drive report consists of list of corrections of perhaps 3-5 items that require adjustment or repair. Whenthe cars were new at the factory, sometimes he had to test-drive cars 2 or 3 times till there was nothing else that remained to be corrected. When he test-drove our car, Chris Dugan believes in fact that the speedo became in-operational during that drive because it was working prior for Chris. Valentino caught the in-operational speedo as well as a few other things that were subsequently rectified, all exactly as planned. If you know anything at all about a full restoration, once the car is complete, there is a period of time where you road-test the car and return to make fettling adjustments & repairs, just like what happened at the factory when the cars were new after being built.

The interesting thing about your comments is, you as a Countach owner should know they are somewhat fragile things, as every Countach owner knows! Are you seriously asking us to belive that there has never been anything at all become in-operational on your Countach? The last time we saw a pic of your Countach on the Internet, was it not being towed away on a flatbed?

BTW Valentino is a charming diplomat and always seeks to make everyone happy, and I am 100% certain he will never go on public record to affirm the story you are asking us to believe that he said that the Fuelie is more powerful than the Downdraft at mid-to-high stage of the rev range. If indeed he believes that to be a truth, he will have no problem affirming it in writing when I ask him to when I ask him to kindly do so for an upcoming article, as with other things he has done for me upon request - stay tuned and we'll see how he responds. BTW, the notion that a less powerful engine with less torque and a more restrictive ancillary system can be more powerful @ mid-to-upper end of the rev range is, well, absolutely hilarious! Frankly, it's BS, and personally, I don't believe he said any such thing. That or something was lost in translation or explanation. I'll soon receive the original performance DGMs (I already have the basic numbers) and we can put your theory to rest.

This might be a good time to review the 3 indisputable facts that separate the Downdraft from other variants:
- The Downdraft is the most powerful factory variant of the Countach, documented.
- The Downdraft is the only Supercar of any make with a V12 4-valve carbureted engine, documented.
- The Downdraft is the only Countach variant the factory chose to FIA Homologate, documented.

Even if you pretend these things mean nothing, that's okay, many people, owners included, think they are fantastic attributes.

On that note, I've said it before and I'll say it again, by your presence here alone, you come across a guy who really wants & needs Downdraft, no matter what you say in denial, so far as you are here being all negative rather than positive about the thread's subject, that's my position, and all you do so far is continue to re-affirm it. If anything, you do a great job drawing attention & interest to this fabulous Countach variant

 

In the words of the great Winston Churchill, "You Sir, are correct on both counts!"

 

Nice image of the Mimran Downdraft posted by Ravi Gill on Flickr this morning, here's the full-res version https://www.flickr.com/photos/ravigill/37146103093

What he didn't realize when he took this image is that there's a copy of the FIA Homologation document in the glovebox,
just in case someone asks for proof

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The Homologation meant the Miura P400 could be raced, as it was by Anatoly Arutunoff in SCCA in the USA for example, and others in South America and Europe. It also tells you how Messrs Dallara and Wallace felt about the car, but I don't think Ferruccio was pleased.

 

Only the Downdraft.

FIA Homologation documents # B - 291 for the "Carburatori" QV including Downdraft engine pages posted on page one (1) of this thread.