Countach Downdraft 1985 to 1988.5

EarlyCat · Nov 12, 2017

joe sackey said: ↑

I should say that personally I appreciate any & all specific parts recommendations and parts cross-referencing, because parts for our cars are not easy to find.

One thing I should clarify with all due respect, the percentage of components that Chris Dugan sources from domestic retail outlets or home hardware stores for his restorations is roughly somewhere between zero and zero, rest assured! I've known Chris for 15 years, work very closely with Chris on a weekly basis, and am overseeing @ 6 separate restorations with him right now, so I'm really familiar with his working operation http://www.duganspecialties.com/ & http://www.duganspecialties.com/ferrari-service.html

There are a few people reading this who have actually taken the time to make the pilgrimage to Dugan Specialties and visited with Chris Dugan, any of whom can confirm what I'm saying. That said, I personally would have no problem with someone doing whatever they have to do to their car to keep it running or in good order, but please let's not start assuming that everyone uses their local hardware store as their primary parts resource! My wife would give me the look if I asked her to pick up some hose-clamps or carburetor jets for one of our Lamborghini or Ferrari projects next time she pops into True Value for light bulbs for the house!

I often hear this mantra that "it is the same" or "from a few feet away you wont notice", and I understand this thinking, but for me, I feel like a collectible car worth anywhere from half-a-million to a million, only the right component will do. I have learned that if you really persist, you can find anything. Perhaps my standards are influenced by the people I deal with who hold me responsible for some of the cars in their collection, they would kill me if I casually said to them "oh, its the same thing" when it clearly is not. Also, as these cars become more revered, I have noticed that many young enthusiasts including those who do not even own a Countach know exactly what is correct, you'll be surprised!

Yet still, a person can do whatever they wish to their car, I understand that.

Thanks, I will try Eurospares, and, Chris & I discovered during the restoration of our Countach that there are some specialists in Italy and Australia which I have mentioned above who are really good at getting NOS Italian car stuff for sensible amounts. I know, this will cost more money than at the local Ace Hardware, but, sometimes money (which can be replaced) is not the most valuable thing, it is time, time spent having to look again because the part was wrong, didn't fit right or look good, or, because the part needed to be modified to fit or work, the latter all a huge hassle. I think you understand the thinking of getting the right components that fit and work correctly, for a valuable collector car.

Here below is GLA12997 when it was being restored @ Dugan Specialties (pic by Chris), nary a hardware store bolt in sight!

View attachment 2466506
Click to expand...

I think your making a lot of assumptions on restorations. I'm sure Chris has to order bolts or get them from somewhere, like Fastenal, and not every bolt came from Lamborghini.

joe sackey said: ↑

I should say that personally I appreciate any & all specific parts recommendations and parts cross-referencing, because parts for our cars are not easy to find.

One thing I should clarify with all due respect, the percentage of components that Chris Dugan sources from domestic retail outlets or home hardware stores for his restorations is roughly somewhere between zero and zero, rest assured! I've known Chris for 15 years, work very closely with Chris on a weekly basis, and am overseeing @ 6 separate restorations with him right now, so I'm really familiar with his working operation http://www.duganspecialties.com/ & http://www.duganspecialties.com/ferrari-service.html

There are a few people reading this who have actually taken the time to make the pilgrimage to Dugan Specialties and visited with Chris Dugan, any of whom can confirm what I'm saying. That said, I personally would have no problem with someone doing whatever they have to do to their car to keep it running or in good order, but please let's not start assuming that everyone uses their local hardware store as their primary parts resource! My wife would give me the look if I asked her to pick up some hose-clamps or carburetor jets for one of our Lamborghini or Ferrari projects next time she pops into True Value for light bulbs for the house!

I often hear this mantra that "it is the same" or "from a few feet away you wont notice", and I understand this thinking, but for me, I feel like a collectible car worth anywhere from half-a-million to a million, only the right component will do. I have learned that if you really persist, you can find anything. Perhaps my standards are influenced by the people I deal with who hold me responsible for some of the cars in their collection, they would kill me if I casually said to them "oh, its the same thing" when it clearly is not. Also, as these cars become more revered, I have noticed that many young enthusiasts including those who do not even own a Countach know exactly what is correct, you'll be surprised!

Yet still, a person can do whatever they wish to their car, I understand that.

Thanks, I will try Eurospares, and, Chris & I discovered during the restoration of our Countach that there are some specialists in Italy and Australia which I have mentioned above who are really good at getting NOS Italian car stuff for sensible amounts. I know, this will cost more money than at the local Ace Hardware, but, sometimes money (which can be replaced) is not the most valuable thing, it is time, time spent having to look again because the part was wrong, didn't fit right or look good, or, because the part needed to be modified to fit or work, the latter all a huge hassle. I think you understand the thinking of getting the right components that fit and work correctly, for a valuable collector car.

Here below is GLA12997 when it was being restored @ Dugan Specialties (pic by Chris), nary a hardware store bolt in sight!

View attachment 2466506
Click to expand...

Sometimes I really regret sticking my neck out to help you.

joe sackey · Nov 12, 2017

EarlyCat said: ↑

I think your making a lot of assumptions on restorations. I'm sure Chris has to order bolts or get them from somewhere, like Fastenal, and not every bolt came from Lamborghini.
Click to expand...

Agreed, not everything comes from Lamborghini, of course.

Fastenal is a specialized source, quite different from one's local Walmart.

I think I did a fair job of very respectfully making the point that some may choose to source NOS components.

I don't make lots of assumptions on restorations, at least not with the ones I'm directly involved with.

I do appreciate you trying to help, as I posted.

joe sackey · Nov 12, 2017

Well-used French-registered Downdraft posted many times here before

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97diablo · Nov 12, 2017

Looking for help please. I need brake pads for my 1985 DD. Where can I get them? Thanks in advance.

Lemacc · Nov 12, 2017

joe sackey said: ↑

Well-used French-registered Downdraft posted many times here before

View attachment 2466524
Click to expand...

Do you have the VIN of this particular car? Note the third brake light. (middle east spec)

Here is another french black QV

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judealexander · Nov 12, 2017

joe sackey said: ↑

Agreed, not everything comes from Lamborghini, of course.

Fastenal is a specialized source, quite different from one's local Walmart.

I think I did a fair job of very respectfully making the point that some may choose to source NOS components.

I don't make lots of assumptions on restorations, at least not with the ones I'm directly involved with.

I do appreciate you trying to help, as I posted.
Click to expand...

Joe and EarlyCat,

Interestingly enough, the driver side rear reflector was missing when I purchased FLA12824. However, Richard at Competizione and Sportscars, was able to locate new OEM Carello reflectors for me. While the Walmart piece may be a red reflector of the same dimensions, and is VERY creative solution, original reflectors should say "Carello", I believe. Attached are before and after shots. Don't hold me to it--not an expert on this stuff in any way--just passing on what I know!

Sincerely,
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judealexander · Nov 12, 2017

Joe,

On another note, took FLA12824 out for a brisk drive today as part of a "shakedown" for the engine, transmission, and suspension, post-rebuild. The car prior to the mechanical overhaul was anemic with a tired engine, and down 100 HP. Now, the DD is a snorting beast which leaves me speechless every time I stab the throttle and rocket down the road! Driven quite a few fast cars, but the torque delivered by a carbureted DD is really something otherworldly.

Honestly, the rate at which speed piles on is addicting...and alarming at the same time. I found myself shooting for every gap in traffic, and bearing down on several unwitting Honda drivers in the slow lane. At 6000 RPM in 3rd or 4th gear, the sound and fury was intoxicating, but finally came to my sense at 120 mph and backed off the throttle.

Question is, have you developed a smooth driving style over the years to cope with the torque from your DD's, or are you equally guilty of lurching through traffic? Wonder if Valentino has a fluid driving style... Image Unavailable, Please Login

Best,
J

ijvpet · Nov 12, 2017

Quick question:
what is the best adhesive to make sure the Carello reflector stays attached forever ?

Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

joe sackey · Nov 12, 2017

97diablo said: ↑

Looking for help please. I need brake pads for my 1985 DD. Where can I get them? Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

All I can suggest is contact Chris Dugan, he will be helpful http://www.duganspecialties.com/

Lemacc said: ↑

Do you have the VIN of this particular car? Note the third brake light. (middle east spec)
Here is another french black QV
Click to expand...

Yes, the French Downdraft with the 3rd brake light is an HLA12xxx car, the chassis number noted in this thread, I'm not in a place where I can check it easily.

The other black/tan French-registered Downdraft is the ex-Greg Solomon car, which used to live in my garage when new as Greg would leave it in my care when he was out of the country, I drove it many times, and have posted those images you just posted before. It was UK-registered E 734 KYL when it was in my care (see below, with Portman's detailer), and the chassis number is HLA12187, I hope I got that right by heart.

judealexander said: ↑

Joe and EarlyCat,
Interestingly enough, the driver side rear reflector was missing when I purchased FLA12824. However, Richard at Competizione and Sportscars, was able to locate new OEM Carello reflectors for me. While the Walmart piece may be a red reflector of the same dimensions, and is VERY creative solution, original reflectors should say "Carello", I believe. Attached are before and after shots. Don't hold me to it--not an expert on this stuff in any way--just passing on what I know!
Click to expand...

I think we can all agree that the owner of a Countach should use whatever parts they wish - similar, aftermarket, NOS OEM, whatever works for the individual.

Meanwhile, the Carello stuff is not easy to find, but as you point out, it can still be found.

judealexander said: ↑

Joe,
On another note, took FLA12824 out for a brisk drive today as part of a "shakedown" for the engine, transmission, and suspension, post-rebuild. The car prior to the mechanical overhaul was anemic with a tired engine, and down 100 HP. Now, the DD is a snorting beast which leaves me speechless every time I stab the throttle and rocket down the road! Driven quite a few fast cars, but the torque delivered by a carbureted DD is really something otherworldly.
Honestly, the rate at which speed piles on is addicting...and alarming at the same time. I found myself shooting for every gap in traffic, and bearing down on several unwitting Honda drivers in the slow lane. At 6000 RPM in 3rd or 4th gear, the sound and fury was intoxicating, but finally came to my sense at 120 mph and backed off the throttle.
Question is, have you developed a smooth driving style over the years to cope with the torque from your DD's, or are you equally guilty of lurching through traffic? Wonder if Valentino has a fluid driving style...
Click to expand...

It's great to hear you are enjoying the car!

I agree the defining characteristic of the Downdraft's drive is the torque's prominence.

When you drive with Valentino, as many who have can attest, he is very smooth with both hands & feet, and his driving style is to wind on the speed as opposed to nailing the throttle - if I'm describing it right. I try to do the same thing, and my feelings with GLA12997's power mirror yours, the torque is truly prodigious.

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joe sackey · Nov 12, 2017

ijvpet said: ↑

Quick question:
what is the best adhesive to make sure the Carello reflector stays attached forever ?
Click to expand...

I haven't had the pleasure of ever answering that question, but whatever you use, you want to make sure that it is an adhesive that won't react with the plastic badly so as to discolor or darken it, as I have seen with a couple of cars recently.

joe sackey · Nov 12, 2017

Lemacc said: ↑

Do you have the VIN of this particular car?
Click to expand...

You will know this special Downdraft.

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joe sackey · Nov 12, 2017

I believe this is Emilio S's HLA12045, if so, I drove this Downdraft a decade ago from Zurich to St Moritz
through the Alps, a memorable blast.

I recall it was super-quick, and I found out later via Vale that the engine had been rebuilt in Italy under his auspices.

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97diablo · Nov 13, 2017

Thanks for the info Joe. I'll call him today.

joe sackey · Nov 13, 2017

97diablo said: ↑

Thanks for the info Joe. I'll call him today.
Click to expand...

Happy to help, when we were restoring GLA12997, non-OEM pads were suggested but we were warned off them as they can lead to brake disc and eventually suspension issues, either way you're in good hands.

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joe sackey · Nov 13, 2017

Dugan created this page http://www.duganspecialties.com/bordeaux-countach.html

GuyIncognito · Nov 13, 2017

joe sackey said: ↑

Happy to help, when we were restoring GLA12997, non-OEM pads were suggested but we were warned off them as they can lead to brake disc and eventually suspension issues, either way you're in good hands.

View attachment 2466781
Click to expand...

those rotors

far cry from today's pizza tray diameter, vented, cross drilled/slotted rotors.

joe sackey · Nov 13, 2017

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joe sackey · Nov 13, 2017

GuyIncognito said: ↑

those rotors
far cry from today's pizza tray diameter, vented, cross drilled/slotted rotors
Click to expand...

Indeed, they are from 30 years ago, so you have to plan your braking and use the gearbox, but that's part of the fun of driving these.

cnpapa24 · Nov 13, 2017

joe sackey said: ↑

View attachment 2466787
Click to expand...

Is this your car?

Spyder-Man · Nov 13, 2017

joe sackey said: ↑

Dugan created this page http://www.duganspecialties.com/bordeaux-countach.html
Click to expand...

Great page of detail and pictures from Chris and co.
R

EMILIO · Nov 13, 2017

joe sackey said: ↑

When you drive with Valentino, as many who have can attest, he is very smooth with both hands & feet, and his driving style is to wind on the speed as opposed to nailing the throttle
Click to expand...

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joe sackey · Nov 13, 2017

cnpapa24 said: ↑

Is this your car?
Click to expand...

No, a car in Europe.

FWIW this car has the early dash like your car as shown here versus the late dash https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/145365903/ whereas our car has the factory interim dash with air-vents and speaker-holes added to each end https://www.instagram.com/p/BZ5KtdRj5h9/?taken-by=joesackeyclassics

Spyder-Man said: ↑

Great page of detail and pictures from Chris and co.
R
Click to expand...

I must get them to correct the model year to 1986!

judealexander · Nov 13, 2017

joe sackey said: ↑

All I can suggest is contact Chris Dugan, he will be helpful http://www.duganspecialties.com/

Yes, the French Downdraft with the 3rd brake light is an HLA12xxx car, the chassis number noted in this thread, I'm not in a place where I can check it easily.

The other black/tan French-registered Downdraft is the ex-Greg Solomon car, which used to live in my garage when new as Greg would leave it in my care when he was out of the country, I drove it many times, and have posted those images you just posted before. It was UK-registered E 734 KYL when it was in my care (see below, with Portman's detailer), and the chassis number is HLA12187, I hope I got that right by heart.

I think we can all agree that the owner of a Countach should use whatever parts they wish - similar, aftermarket, NOS OEM, whatever works for the individual.

Meanwhile, the Carello stuff is not easy to find, but as you point out, it can still be found.

It's great to hear you are enjoying the car!

I agree the defining characteristic of the Downdraft's drive is the torque's prominence.

When you drive with Valentino, as many who have can attest, he is very smooth with both hands & feet, and his driving style is to wind on the speed as opposed to nailing the throttle - if I'm describing it right. I try to do the same thing, and my feelings with GLA12997's power mirror yours, the torque is truly prodigious.

View attachment 2466621
Click to expand...

Must really be something to go for a drive with Valentino! Oh, should I be so lucky....

Lemacc · Nov 14, 2017

joe sackey said: ↑

Agreed, not everything comes from Lamborghini, of course.

Fastenal is a specialized source, quite different from one's local Walmart.

I think I did a fair job of very respectfully making the point that some may choose to source NOS components.

I don't make lots of assumptions on restorations, at least not with the ones I'm directly involved with.

I do appreciate you trying to help, as I posted.
Click to expand...

I just can speak about my work, i try to use as much OEM parts as possible.
Original screws/bolts (in good condition) gets replated in the correct finish, others in bad condition will be exchanged thru screws by the "supplier" würth in the correct plating finish.
Other fasteners like rivets will be ordered by würth too, they have a lot of stuff which is 99% identical to OEM. Sometimes i´m lucky to find parts on ebay too. It´s time consuming but it´s worth at the end.

Lemacc · Nov 14, 2017

joe sackey said: ↑

You will know this special Downdraft.

View attachment 2466622
Click to expand...

This must be the Brivio QV MY88,5 which was or is located in Italy.

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