Countach Downdraft 1985 to 1988.5

Perfectly stated.

 

Are you talking about euro front end and euro rear “Look” only? Or do you also mean mechanics? Because you mention “engine”. I don’t think people are trying to make a Fuelie into actual DD cars although I guess a few where done (web rumored anyway) back when you could actually buy the parts. Just wondering if I misunderstood.
As far as DOT big rubber bumpers, there is no making a case for them imo.LOL . I don’t care the era, circumstances, or market at the time.. they are hideous and need to go! LOL. IF someone left the rear facia alone, minus removing the rubber toasters, I get it because it kind of “matches” the engine cover, but surely there are not truly people advocating for DOT black rubber bumper are there?

 

This should be more to the FI thread if we are talking about FI cars, but Not quite sure about any car where a FI car is converted to a DD model. There are a lot of engine modifications required and I’m not sure why anyone should want to do that.

If you are referring to the DOT appendages, there is a difference between the emissions requirements of cars, (the fuel injection) and the 5 mph appendages on the FI cars. These two distinct modifications that the cars had to endure should not be confused.

There is not a FI car existing that will likely have the modified bumpers in place for long. No one should be arguing that these cars should be left with these awful scars. Or be stigmatized as “modified” cars by having these appendages removed. They are aweful modifications that the factory had to butcher the cars with (after the cars were painted) to get them into the US. Painted bodies were drilled into hap hazardously. As a perfect analogy, every McLaren F1 that came legally into the US had to have very similar bumpers put on the car. Same type of holes drilled, same type of ugly appendages. There is not a single F1 in America with these left on. Why? Because the cars were 1M plus when they were brought in. There is also not a single F1 that’s stigmatized as a “ modified” US F1 or anyone driving F1s around with these bumpers. They were modifications necessary to get the cars abroad. Nothing more. The only reason that FI QVs did not have the similar immediate reversion was because they were not (yet) 1M plus cars

I don’t subscribe that FI car or DD should be valued the same or debate the value difference. But no one should be arguing that a FI car is someone less desirable or stigmatized as modified bc the offending appendages should be removed. Nor should anyone discourage someone from removing the original cancerous tumor in their body. We should be encouraging their removal. Period.

That said it’s true that a proper reversion of the bumpers is expensive and often not done correctly. I also agree it would be insane to try to modify mechanics of a FI into a DD


QUOTE="Rossocorsa1, post: 146287115, member: 208082"]I’m sure you’re right. Interestingly, inside the book, they have photos of QV’s in both Euro and DOT configurations, both downdrafts.

Those who know more on this topic can correct if I’m wrong, but I believe very early on in QV production, there were a certain amount of downdrafts that were legally imported into the US prior to more restrictive DOT regulations taking affect and thus the fuel injected version.[/QUOTE]

Yes a few downdrafts made it in without the appendages mods. You had the expertise of seeing one that Chevy used and was shot for the R&T article. But even very early ones were jacked up in a non uniform fashion to try to make it in. Some owners also worked with the factory with early solutions for impor


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This is spot-on John. Excellent analogy to the F1. Couldn’t agree with you more...

 

I would say you have very good eyes. It def. looks squashed.

 

I spy... Harry..? Who else?
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That’s a great lineup of cars

 

Joe:

Anyone can distinguish facts in an analogy. But the point is whether these distinctions are important. McLaren controlled and oversaw everything that was done with Amerispec as they do with most servicing of the cars in the US and time of import and afterwards. It would be inaccurate to imply this the DOT modifications did not involve McLaren. The law was a bit different which required this modification to be outsourced. There is a legal distinction, and outsourcing by the factory, but this was entirely to weave in and out of the laws. In both cases the cars needed to be buchered as an afterthought to get them through the stupid DOT laws. There was nothing than this. If you lived in Japan, your Countach came purely as designed. If you had the misfortune of having to chose to have your McLaren F1 or Countach delivered into the US then the car had to be butchered and modified from its origin design to get in into North America. I don’t subscribe any purity to the the car having this done at some point on the line after it was partially built, to being outsourced to a third party before it could be released. Countachs has thier original factory designed and painted bodies painted drilled into for the DOT modifications. As for Euro design, it was the design for the entire world, modifications of DOT bumpers were for North America. And Downdrafts in Canada suffered the same fate, not just fuel injected. And there were a few cars, the Downdraft Ex Al Copeland car, that I owned and you sold, was modified by Al Copeland in the identical manner to an F1, here in the states, to get it into the country. It was properly corrected by you and I. The F1 and the FI CT were modified the same way for the same law, the only difference was the outsource and when. It doesn’t reflect the desire of anyone and was just a stupid law that required a modification to a worldwide (not euro) design to skirt a dumb DOT law.

I get it that there are a group of FI owners that have chips in their shoulders that are trying prentend the market can or should value a FI cars as much as a Downdraft. It’s nonesense. The carbed engine always has and always will be valued higher.

That said, any notion that there is some purity or sacred nature to the DOT bumper mods, should be discouraged.

 

If the McLaren was sent to the US with a different engine with less HP, would it matter or change value? Most likely.

 

Of course. The dead horse that is being beaten is the comparison of performance, not values. And as stated many times, the US exhaust system is very restrictive compared to the euro, additional weight of the US dot bumpers, if removed, brings the performance to a similar level. That's the claim.

 

Which seems will never end.. regardless of the fact that it doesn’t matter anymore. Why? 3 words.
Soccer, Mom, Tesla.

 

Joe
KM8 just drove past me.
Alive and well and living in London (no longer on a Q.V.)
Robert

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