Whats this? You will get the same cracking and popping from a Fuelie with exhaust as you do a carbed car? Image Unavailable, Please Login
An FI with exhaust sounds just as good as a carbed car? Admitting that the DD had an advantage of the majority of them having open exhaust? Image Unavailable, Please Login
Whats this? A shot against carbed cars? I thought they were simply set them and forget them? Image Unavailable, Please Login
More about the glorious noise coming from a Fuelie? Was it I that wrote this post? Image Unavailable, Please Login
I accused you of fabricating the sale of a Downdraft at $195k, but, I also gave you every opportunity to prove me wrong, and said I'd be happy to be proven wrong. You haven't taken me up on that, instead, sour grapes has resulted in this parallel discussion with the 25th Anniversario Fuelies are rarer than Downdrafts, fact, nobody disputes that, they served a smaller market as opposed to the ROW/Eu carb cars. In 2013, 5 years ago when that post was made, yes. I have always maintained that the 25th Anniversario at the end of Countach production was the best build quality (as it should be) and still do. Yes, of course, with a free-flow exhaust, this happens on the overrun, carbed or fuel-injected. That said, the induction sound is very different. It sounds as good as any Fuelie car, and anyone knows that the Downdraft's advantage is a combination of what's within the engine itself, it's induction system and not just the exhaust. Typically, yes, but as many carbed cars go out of tune as fuel-injected cars develop issues, this one did not sound well
The notion that carb cars foul up their plugs and are impossible to set right is false, that said, a fuel-injection which has not been modified should require even less work than carbs, no secret there. Many fuel-injected cars sound great! A 288 GTO with Megaphonos is an example. In the "Middle East due to conditions & climate", you left that part out
Not at all, I was just listening to a Miura SV leaving for a car show and I thought to myself "those carbs need to be rebuilt", it sounded truly awful, I have a well-tuned ear, that said I have heard some fuel-injected cars that sounded even worse
I said "I think", but, that's essentially what you've been maintaining all along, right? Bear in mind also, that some of us are always learning, researching & discovering new material, and the 5 years since those posts is a long time, I seriously had not looked at the Downdraft seriously till @ 2-3 years ago, BTW if I was wrong, it's not the first time I've been wrong (sounds familiar, right?) so far as I've corrected the error and I'm right now
Whats this? Fuel Injection stays in tune, UNLIKE A CARBED CAR? And WHAT..... YOU NOTICED THAT FUEL INJECTED CARS HAVE BETTER THROTTLE RESPONSE? Can you say TORQUE? Image Unavailable, Please Login
How often have you been acquainted with a car, then formed a realization? I guess I really needed to be acquainted with a good Downdraft, before I got this one,I hadn't even been in one for 20 years. To say it was a revelation was an understatement. I've now learned that Fuel injection can be manipulated more easily than carbs with a view to improving emissions, and the tradeoff is that the Fuelie cars with lower compression pistons generate lower torque ratings and therefore have a lower power output, but this means their power delivery can feel smoother. Carbureted engines allow for sports camshaft, bigger jets, carburetor spacers and air-flow optimization, so you have to set them up just right, then they are phenomenal. As I've pointed out before, induction for the Downdraft is vastly superior as the route the air takes from the intake trumpets of the six Weber 44DCNF carbs into the combustion chambers is a short and relatively straight column, this is the main reason why the throttle response of the Downdraft is superior to that of the Fuelie.
You can talk in circles all you want... You yourself have said you have owned countless Countach's since they were introduced. You have owned several Downdrafts prior to the one you own now.... Joe Sackey, the master manipulator... Bending and twisting every story to suit his needs.... I have always said, a cat-less DD makes more power than a emissions equipped Fuelie. Ive always maintained that this changes once the emission control equipment is removed on the fuelie. Ive always maintained that a fuel injected car is easier to keep in tune. I, as well as others including your supposed best friend Vale (NOT) confirmed that the Fuelie makes more torque, and here you are unequivocally saying the FUELIE has better throttle response...hence torque as well as confirming all my other points. THANK YOU
Incorrect, previously, I owned just one (1) Downdraft which I purchased nearly new in the late 80s. Clearly this one opened my eyes and lead me to more knowlege. We should all be learning with time, I'm happy to say I am. I don't think anyone needs to get upset over the fact that the comparison between the Downdraft and the Fuelie, its simply the study of two variants. Meanwhile, note that this has been instigated mostly by you, and you are over here doing yet again. I also think that the differences between the cars have been fairly characterized because they are both material & obvious. The DOT bodywork speaks for itself, but even the engine of the Fuelie is quite different as the factory themselves illustrate Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Anyone who’s been here long enough knows that time and again, Joe post opinions as “facts” to suit whatever specific car or market he’s currently involved in. His agenda determines the story.
Sure. Facts would be dated genuine factory documentation such as the illustrations above, no agenda, just sharing the received knowledge, opinions would be the call that they are all the same when it's plain to see that they are different. For example, if I stated that this factory illustration of the Downdraft shows that the bodywork as manufactured is different from the Fuelie, thats not an opinion, its stating a fact, without agenda. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Some people just have a better eye to the future and of cars that will be even more appreciated than they are today. He’s done better than all of us at picking them well before others catch on. Maybe that’s what hurts? It’s probably naive to think someone can single handedly change the worlds views on 288 GTOs, Miuras, Downdrafts, 930 Turbos etc. but that sounds exactly what your eluding too. That’s high praise in my book.... If you’ve ever met Joe you know he’s very passionate about all the cars. He happens to put his money where his mouth is and buy the best ones he can and then shares the attributes publically. Is that what bothers you? With 25 Downdrafts in the USA and only a very few of those actually running perfectly it’s no wonder the US guys haven’t been able to discuss the DDs separately from the FI. Keep on hating guys just talking circles to yourself. You ooze jealousy. Just buy what you like and go discuss it elsewhere. No one talks down about the FI here, people are just pointing out the difference in this thread. You both cannot handle it and it’s really sad to watch then the discussion goes off the rails. Clearly there is a whole group of very sophisticated collectors/enthusiasts who think these are the best ones! I would appreciate moderators to ban these two individuals from the thread so the thread can move on in peace.
Good points, No haters,just performance discussions, Nobody questions Joes passion for cars, and the Sophisticated buyers you are refering to, will,i am shure,keep on buying sophisticated things, have at it. In my world, we call them car guys, and they buy old italian supercars,hotrods, 50 s Cadillacs,you name it, we like them all,
I raised one question ,will the 35 hp dissadvantage in the fuelie go avay if equiped with the exhaust from its carbed sibling? Iow headers,and no cats. And loss of the US bumper weight? I have been personally innsulted and hit under the belt time after time, for suggesting such a thing, i now finally have my answer in print. Ban me from this tread ,i could not care less,
I would expect the power would increase if you did that - whether it would be 35 or more or less could be determined by people who have done it with dyno tests before and after but for now its speculation, but it won't make the engine "the same as" a downdraft- could be better, could be worse. But then now that you have modded your car, it's only fair to mod a downdraft and then compare them - so it becomes a moot point to try to compare them if you're changing anything. Each one has its limitations. Donwdraft carbs can go out of sync as Joe has mentioned - but not on a weekly basis. It's a slow over time process. Likewise, FI cars can have problems with injectors. I've researched a lot, and as far as I know the injectors are the same ones used in a Ferrari 308, and I've read a lot of the problems they have. Original steel injectors work "better" than new brass ones apparently so don't replace them, clean the old one. But I've also seen articles on a Mercedes fan site about cleaning those injectors with the pressure pumps, but that doesn't clean the fine screen inside (the guy cut one in half to take a look) so he back-flushes them to clean them properly. But once again - this doesn't occur weekly either. I can probably find the videos on the Mercedes fan site if anyone is interested, but I'm guessing it may be old news here.
