Countach QV FI Thread | Page 14 | FerrariChat

Countach QV FI Thread

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by johnhoughtaling, Nov 2, 2017.

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  1. Michael Call

    Michael Call Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 6, 2008
    1,074
    S.L.C. Utah
    Full Name:
    Michael D. Call
    I was referring to the superiority of the EFI in ANY M3 to K-Jetronic. K-Jetronic works okay, but it is not the way to chase volumetric efficiency.
     
  2. S_AGATA

    S_AGATA Formula Junior

    Aug 24, 2016
    572
    Mill Valley CA
    Full Name:
    Jon/Sean Sohaei
    I remember that listing, not the same car but nice nonetheless. Black on Black with Gold is one of my personal favorites, always a classic!

    F80 is an impressive car, I assume you're a BMW enthusiast then, whats the spec? Think of this as a discussion comparing USA and ROW E46 M3 headers. Lots of M3 owners purchase the OEM Euro headers or later 2004+ headers which were standard on all M3s including the CSL. Now you've gained some power back by moving the cats off of the headers and down to section 1. Is it now unfair to compare the USA and Euro M3? They also have different bumpers, interiors and even DMEs. Personally I don't think so.

    If it's so unfair, throw supersprints on the both of them, now they're both equally modified. Or similarly throw Larini headers/exhaust on both Countachs. Not really a huge deal......

    That being said, I understand that these conversations get out of hand, most of us try to keep the conversation more technical and less personal.
     
  3. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2013
    755

    Sorry you feel this way. It really is one or two people. It has to do with the USA FI guys putting you off.....

    Get a carb variant and change your life in a very positive way. Bring your car to and C&C and have every Ferrari guy chat your ears off. Terrible statement above and all the instigators wonder why there cars are worth $180-200k. Just have given it a bad rep. Some collectors tried to throw them a bone of positivity with great attitudes towards the situation but that didn’t work.

    Oh well, hope you choose to go ahead with the search and get out of this sorry thread immediately.
     
  4. Nothing wrong with a fuel injected car. That white one in a video (S AGATA posted), I looked at about 14 years ago. It was in Panama City Florida at the time. The seller was truly gracious with me. I was at his office drooling over the thing before he got there. Moments later after a quick introduction we were off. My first Countach ride. We went past a 35 mph sign next to a golf course & he just stood on it. Moments later we were over 100. Then to a hard stop. You want to drive? Oh yeah! Incredible car, as all Countachs are. Enjoy the search.
     
    Michael Call likes this.
  5. S_AGATA

    S_AGATA Formula Junior

    Aug 24, 2016
    572
    Mill Valley CA
    Full Name:
    Jon/Sean Sohaei
    This is in bad taste, some of us truly enjoy all Lamborghini's and have/still own many different variants & models. No harm done, moving on.

    Here's a link from Quick Silvers site:

    https://quicksilverexhausts.store/collections/lamborghini-heritage/products/countach-sport-exhaust-1974-90

    Mikes car is featured as well

     
    Jalpa_Mike and EarlyCat like this.
  6. dinonz308

    dinonz308 Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2017
    867
    Full Name:
    Dean
    My F80 is a 2016 with pretty much everything (including ZCP, but not the CCBs - about the only option I didn't get). I ordered it in 6MT because I'm old school (or maybe just old) and prefer to row my own gears. That's a source of much contention in the forums - 6MT vs DCT. It's "just like a manual". "No it's not". Ad nauseum. DCT owners are wrong of course :) . Not to mention the "tune vs ZCP" debate that rages constantly - not unlike this one. Is that a fair comparison though? Mines stock and still has a warranty, theirs doesn't? Really identical to this argument, even down to the sentiment - there are a LOT of sour grapes from people who bought their car before the ZCP was offered who automatically have to hate it because there's no value in it so why would anyone want it? They even refer to the non-ZCP as a "Civic" to wind them up even more. Sad really - sit back and think about what you're driving! Much like this argument...

    And yes - I know you can buy Euro headers, you can code the Euro MDM mode, you can buy Euro bumpers to hide those unsightly reflectors - the list goes on. Me, I bought a really nice carbon-alcantara-leather hand made steering wheel from Turkey, and have a big goofy grin on my face every time I drive it. I got nearly 20,000 miles out of my tyres, so clearly I drive like a nana. Having 19bhp more than the "Civic" model doesn't excite me in the slightest - I got the ZCP for a multitude of reasons - that power bump was only one. Much like I'd like to get a Countach, but a BIG consideration is the entry-level price on a Downdraft. Having said that, I am doing it for investment also, so the entry level price might remain reflective of the exit-level price when I decide to sell, so that's the better investment choice. Or is it? Maybe Fuelies will increase at a higher rate? I think they're very well priced, and I'm even greedily considering getting one of each.
     
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  7. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    You have an amazing ability to remain oblivious to the point, in this case - performance

    Classy

    Don't let it put you off at all, just the opposite.

    Look at it this way, all the comparisons and all the fuss actually paints a beautiful picture of where your decision should lie. Don't lose sight of the ball, remember, the bickering you refer to is actually caused by just two (2) people, I know a number of Fuelie owners who are thoughtful and knowledgeable. I also enjoy a fantastic camaraderie amongst the Downdraft crowd, no angst there, just sharing of the passion, we talk about everything, our wives, our kids, and, oh yes, the cars.
     
  8. dinonz308

    dinonz308 Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2017
    867
    Full Name:
    Dean
    I'm not giving up, but it is disappointing to see. As bad as this may sound, I don't believe there's any way of telling if the poster I had was FI or not (probably a few tells in the side lights might give it away as a Euro car thus not FI but that would be it) so really in my man-child mind I'm good with either a DD or Fuelie as long as it looks like my poster. I would like to get a QV if possible, but even that's not necessarily what I had on my wall - but it is what my head wants. The poster might have been a 5000S. It will come down to price and my guestimate of which one is a better investment choice. They still IMHO the most amazing car to have been made, and I'll be like a kid in a candy store when I get mine.
     
  9. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    Joe Sackey
    Actually this would be bad taste https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/146065031/ that said I know you feel differently but rmolke85 makes legitimate points
     
  10. dinonz308

    dinonz308 Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2017
    867
    Full Name:
    Dean
    Quite so - I guess it's more putting me off the forums. I've enjoyed learning everything I can but some of this is getting out of hand.
     
  11. S_AGATA

    S_AGATA Formula Junior

    Aug 24, 2016
    572
    Mill Valley CA
    Full Name:
    Jon/Sean Sohaei
  12. dinonz308

    dinonz308 Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2017
    867
    Full Name:
    Dean
    I have never heard that term before so figured she was referring to my big toe I have gout in at the moment - that's right? :)
     
  13. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2013
    755
    My gut feeling was this poster was leaning towards a carb car to begin with but looked into finding out all countach knowledge. He even asked and mentioned that if the car is specific to USA with bumpers and emissions controls then you are changing things from the factory by removing them. Unless I’m mistaken he seemed to believe that to be true so follow your gut when your moneys going hard.... that was my point. If he’s into a Fuelie, do it, there was never anything wrong with that to begin with!!!!!

    There are two people getting in the way of a conversation that is factual in every way and there was never a need to do so.

    All Internet forums are *hit shows this one included.... but they also contain much of the knowledge needed to make informed decisions if you can navigate correctly. Enjoy your eventual car you won’t be disappointed any direction from here.
     
  14. S_AGATA

    S_AGATA Formula Junior

    Aug 24, 2016
    572
    Mill Valley CA
    Full Name:
    Jon/Sean Sohaei
  15. PineChris

    PineChris Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2013
    1,082
    California
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    Chris
    No one ever screamed that the DD made more power and we are unhappy. We said that with certain mods, which put the F/I into the same emission-less catagory as the DD, the Fuelie dispersed the advantage in power that the DD had.

    Using your M3 as an example, 2 identical cars, one with Emissions, one without... Which makes more power?
     
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  16. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,113
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    To the prospective buyer trying to chose between a DD and FI. Here my take after 20 plus years of ownership, (Own both)

    It’s the DD is fastest Countach and will always command a premium . It’s an epic engine and when the carbs are right it’s amazing. A DD set up correctly is wicket fast even by modern standards. I wanted a DD, Thought if it as the ultimate best CT and had to have it.

    Because the DD so desirable (always has been always will be) it’s very costly. Double the cost of a FI car. Double. It has and will always carry a premium over a FI car. And while it’s expensive it’s still a good value as prices will go up.

    Aside from price, the con about the DD is they don’t sit well. If you don’t drive a lot the car it will be out of tune. Modern gas sitting clogs them up. When those carbs are set right it’s magic, but I can say in my 20 plus years of ownership my carbs have been more out of tune than in tune.


    The FI,

    The biggest downside that has hurt the appeal of these cars is not the FI (which works great). The downside is that every FI car was butchered by the factory to get them in the country. So just about every FI car had or has awful bumpers, and holes cut in the body. Mclaren F1s that we’re brought into the US with similar bumpers, and then had them removed and corrected immediately. For some inexplicable reason many Countach owners left these hideous things on there cars. The cars are aweful looking and no one wants a car with these bumpers and so FI cars are often priced artificially low. , Now that values are rising that is changing. While the conversion is expensive and greatly increases value
    Once the car is reverted back to the way it was meant to be, only two bumps in the rear deck lid distinguish the car cosmetically from a DD.

    For me, the FI is the absolute Best Buy in the Countach world right now. Ok, it’s not as fast or as desirable as a DD, but a good FI round body car (without the side skirts or DOT abominations) is every bit the icon and gorgeous as any Countach. The FI car is also very similar in performance, and the FI car is easier to live with, pur key in and fires up and stays on peak performance without easily going out of tune.

    Money no object, then DD. If you care about value, then the FI car is an awesome choice.

    Once all the FI cars are converted the prices are going up big time.



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  17. PineChris

    PineChris Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2013
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    Chris
    Its odd, when Fuelie owners go on the DD thread, they get chastised. But now we have DD owners in the Fuelie thread spewing their same rhetoric and thats ok?
     
  18. PineChris

    PineChris Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2013
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    California
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    Chris
    EarlyCat and S_AGATA like this.
  19. PineChris

    PineChris Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2013
    1,082
    California
    Full Name:
    Chris
  20. S_AGATA

    S_AGATA Formula Junior

    Aug 24, 2016
    572
    Mill Valley CA
    Full Name:
    Jon/Sean Sohaei
    PineChris likes this.
  21. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
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    Joe Sackey
    #346 joe sackey, Jun 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
    So true, you have to be able to "see the wood for the trees" as the saying goes, there is actually a wealth of knowledge that is being shared.

    A fair & thoughtful review of your perspective with both variants, thank you for sharing it.

    I wonder why.

    That said so far as it's civil, constructive, fact-based and useful, it's probably fine.
     
  22. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2013
    755
    This is all great stuff. But there’s just one thing if your looking to collect rare and special things. There are literally 100s of thousands of FI V12 engines out there from a dozen manufacturers over the years.

    There is just one and only DD carb V12 with 4 Valves and it also happens to be in a Countach. Period the end. The FI are great cars but they are not a break through. They are historic for the Countach in them not really for the engine they haves.

    Also we’re here because all the FI talk that happened in the DD section got moved......
     
  23. PineChris

    PineChris Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2013
    1,082
    California
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    Chris
    Just as Sackey said in the Anniversary thread, F/I cars are the future. Better, faster, stronger....
     
  24. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,113
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    PineChris

    When you refer to DD owners in the Fuelie thread “spewing their same rhetoric” I certainly hope you are not talking about me. I started the Fuelie thread hoping to bring awareness to the benefits and attributes of the Fuelie cars.

    I’ve given my opinion about the cars. I have zero agenda. I’m not in the business and I have zero care about what the market does quite frankly whether the Countachs value goes up or to zero has not even a fraction of s decimal point to my financial profile. I have been a DD owner, and spent hundreds of thousands restoring one twenty years ago, at a time when the value was less than 1/2 of what I didn’t restoring the car. I don’t have any financial interest.

    I also recently bought two FI cars, because I find them excellent cars, and far undervalued. I’m not hung up or have any bone to pick trying to pretend anything. I’ve got zero ego in the thing.

    An prospective owner asked about DD vs FI. As an enthusiastic owner of both I gave my opinion. Which I think was on point and factual. My conclusion if you read it is the FI is the best value and most under appreciated cars. Personally I LOVE the fact that a car I like is under appreciated in the market bc 1) it’s ****ing cheaper! I’m not of fragile ego. I want a pontoon fender TR. I’m upset that so many other people also want one and I’d prefer to part with 12M instead of 45M. But that’s life. One is welcome to disagree with my points no problem, but I hope you are not including me in the category of spewing rhetoric.

    I would also agree with you that it’s not ok for an obviously bias person to go into the DD thread and snipe at DD owners, out of insecurity or just to get a rise. And I would agree that a DD owner shouldn’t be in the Fuelie section for the sole purpose of sniping at Fuelie owners with some agenda. Just don’t put me in that category


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  25. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,113
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    On the FI DD debate. Why on earth are you guys so darn hung up on it? I don’t get it. The DD commands a premium bc of the downdraft engine. Great. The market prefers it and if you want a DD then you can spend the double the premium over a FI model.

    If you like, love, or even prefer the FI model, fantastic and great for you, bc you get it for a huge discount over a DD car. Why complain. The only people that want values of a model to go up, are people who already own them.
    No problem. And if you do own one and you like to pump up the appreciation, I don’t know why people push against the obvious market preference. I firmly believe the reason that the FI is under-appreciated has little to do with the FI engine. It’s got to do with the DOT mods, and how people prefer the clean look. And as values rise that’s changing


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     

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