Countach QV FI Thread

Dont mention Sackey or your posts get deleted. So Canepa said he likes the Fuelie over the DD, or the guy who bought it said he did? Cause I believe here Canepa has enjoyed singing the DD praises as well.

 

I think you've got that backwards.

Actually, it is Fuelie owners who are defensive to the fact that I blatantly champion the cause of the Downdraft and it's indisputable attributes which in summary again are that it is the most powerful Countach variant produced by Lamborghini, it is the factory's performance version of the QV, it is the only Countach that Lamborghini chose to FIA Homologate, and it does not need to be modified to be acceptable.

Canepa knows all this by the way, and he sells carbureted Countachs as well, like this one below

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Do you know the VIN of that one? Is this car an original ROW spec or later converted?

 

Leo this is the carbureted LP500S ZA9C00500ELA12691, Nero Tenebre/Rosso, new to Ormond Beach, Florida in November 1983, always in the USA in original factory ROW spec.

 

As far as i consern,they are all awesome,wich is how we all should promote them.

 

There is no doubt that they all are awesome. But in order to continue the climb on the collectability chart, outsiders coming in should know the differences so that they can make an informed decision for when they are ready to purchase. One of the incredible attributes of the Countach is it’s long production run and the differences from the pure LP400 to the Anniversary.

You can say many positive things about each and there is a diverse price range for those who are ready to buy. The market makes the pricing in the end and calling out such attributes such as most pure or most powerful should be commended. It makes the cars less confusing and more exciting for those wanting the incredible experience of owning the most important Supercar ever created.

 

Yes. Agreed. Altough the serious buyer will do his /her own homework. I will leave it at that

 

And the broken record is back... In the immortal words of Valentino Balboni, FIA Homolgate= meaningless and the Fuelie made more torque....

 

Good times...
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Please feel free to promote them that way, there is nothing wrong with that approach, meanwhile others with a total experience of all the variants ever made at Sant Agata and with a professional perspective may choose to promote them in a different way, each to their own.

Exactly.

Valentino Balboni says he never uttered those so-called immortal words to you in that way, and I believe him, he also says that he of course recognizes the importance of the FIA Homologation of any Supercar by any car maker (as does anyone with a comprehensive knowledge of sports cars in general), and, he recognizes that the Downdraft engine is in fact a more powerful unit torque & horsepower inclusive throughout the rev range.

My comments are limited to facts, which are, the Downdraft is the most powerful Countach variant produced by Lamborghini, it is the factory's performance version of the QV (whereas the Fuelie is the emissions version), the Downdraft is the only Countach that Lamborghini chose to FIA Homologate, and it does not need to be modified to be acceptable. All these are non-disputable facts, anyone being objective can't fault someone for sticking to facts.

"There is no difference to the design of the rear of a USA 25th versus that of an EU/ROW car..." sounds like a simple fact to me, and the rest of that post is also fact-based.

"Carburetors that need to be rebuilt?" is simply a question that suggests they can easily be rebuilt and made as good as new and generate optimum performance. Bosch Fuelie units on the other hand have now-decaying components that are becoming unobtainable and currently produce sub-par performance. Weber carburetors are sexy, simple, effective, easily-maintained and with rebuilding will last forever.

 

Seems like your professional interest have a tendency to change,based on whats in your inventory , then again, we all read these posts,Rave On , keep underestimating everybody else.

 

Let me try and explain my perspective.

To me knowledge is a process of discovery & experience, we are all always learning, and with the passing of time, anyone should be open to changing or refocusing their interests to whatever area they feel appeals to them for whatever reason, I prefer to have views that evolve rather than be stagnant, as it seems to me to be a shame to try to hold on to singular ideals forever in this one life. Whatever I liked yesterday may not necessarily be top of my list today.

30 years ago when they were still making them at Sant Agata, I had a Downdraft. I was 30 years younger then and didn't appreciate it especially. Since then I have personally owned/used/maintained/restored/whatever 3 different LP400, 3 different LP400S S1, 2 different LP500S, 2 different 25ths, and finally, the Mimran Downdraft. That makes for 12 different Countachs in total that I have personally owned across the entire variant range produced at Sant Agata. I don't know anyone who has the same ownership breadth of experience across all the variants from start-to-finish, and I think my experience has given me a unique perspective and an unbiased basis for selection over time. Anyway, in late 2015 not even 4 years ago, I got reacquainted with another Downdraft, and a light bulb went off, it was a major seminal life-moment for me @ 27 years in the making. Even though I had a Downdraft 30 years earlier, back then I did not notice certain features of the Downdraft because I was younger and didn't have the benefit of owning all those other variants. Now reunited with a Downdraft, I noticed that I fit in it perfectly unlike the 4 liter cars, I noticed that it had adequate ground clearance unlike my Lowbodies, I noticed it had lots more power as it is the most powerful Countach variant made by Lamborghini, and I didn't need to modify it's appearance for it to appeal to me. Some things come back to you later in life with clear meaning. The Downdraft just suits my current ideals and ticks every box, and I just think they are very special Countachs.

I tend to recommend the best of the Ferraris & Lamborghinis that I have actual ownership experience in to my clients on a specialization basis, that way I can help them better with cars I really know. Remember, as an independent Supercar consultant, I can focus my professional interest on whatever I like, and that's exactly what I do.

Hope this makes sense and helps you understand my perspective.

By the way, I don't keep any cars 'in inventory' or sell my own stuff to clients anymore, I simply help collectors find the things they want, and find new homes for the stuff they want to move on, I like to keep it simple.

 

Here we are again spewing your DD nonsense and the mods allow it. You can try and contradict Valentino's words all you'd like, but the fact remains his words: FIA HOMOLOGATION is meaningless, and the Fuel Injected Countach makes more torque than the DD. Maybe you can pay Valentino to come on here and refute the words I'm standing by, otherwise Ill be seeing him soon. Till then, lets all buy Maserati Biturbos , because they too are Fia Homologated.

 

Fuel injected is better than the DD.... Next...

 

I'm allowed here because you invite me here by mentioning my name or referring to me, and I'm always happy to respond, otherwise I probably wouldn't be here. That said, I am happy to use any platform or venue to extoll the virtues and wax lyrical about the Downdraft.

I know I am looked upon as someone who champions the cause of the Downdraft and I accept that with pride, but be assured that myself aside, nobody promotes the Downdraft better than you & Ellagirl by the simple expedient of your protestations - food for thought. As they say any publicity is good publicity (I personally don't always agree with that) and the Downdraft sure has become both well-received and popular worldwide in the last few years because of this.

Human Nature provides a powerful influence in the choices people make. I remember @ 25 years ago when looking at Miuras someone proclaimed "you don't really need an SV". So what did I do? I ended up owning 5 SVs over the next 20 years. Human Nature. I recently showed a client 3 Ferrari Enzos, yellow, red & black. The black Enzo was a 15% premium and I advised him he didn't really need to pay the premium. So what does he do? He buys the black car. Human Nature. Same thing with the Downdraft, the more people like you protest about them, the more attention they get and people start to do their homework and realize it really is the ultimate Countach. I can count 5 new Downdraft owners in recent times who followed this path, so thank you for promoting the Downdraft.

Meanwhile, don't get too hung-up on the past or whatever I said was the best 5 years ago. Progress & change are life's guarantees, how many racecar drivers have a driven a car and said "that's the best car I have ever driven" only to be followed by the exact same statement about a different car a few years later? Yet both statements are 100% true for them true for them at the time they were made.

I don't contradict Valentino's words, you do, he says you have taken what he said out-of-context and he never said what you say he did, he works with us all the time and is doing so at this very moment, so I don't need to pay him to do anything to confirm this, anyway, I believe him as he has both knowledge & credibility, you on the other hand, not-so-much.

It's clear that you are clueless about the significance of FIA Homologation, let me help you a little with this. Anyone who understands the basis of the FIA accreditation knows that any auto maker of the era would FIA Homologate the performance version of a particular model. FIA Homologation by itself does not mean a car is potent or special amongst all cars, it simply means that this is the most potent performance version of that particular manufacturer's model which they have chosen to FIA Homologate. The Downdraft was the performance version of the Countach, the Fuelie was the emissions version, both indisputable facts, and that is why it is significant that the Downdraft was the variant that was FIA Homologated and not the Fuelie. So, yes, if you like Maseratis from that era, buy a Biturbo.

As regards power, the Downdraft was the most powerful version of any Countach and therefore the fastest, if you've decided the Fuelie has more torque midrange (it doesn't really, it's numbers are less than those of a Downdraft) and this is somehow is a point in it's favor, bear in mind that torque really matters most in a truck for towing capacity.

 

Based on nothing, other than your biased opinion and ownership of not a single carbureted Countach as a basis for a meaningful comparison.

I am not saying that the Downdraft is 'better', that's a very subjective, generalized and opinionated word, although I will admit the Fuelie is clearly better at some things, such as, being the USA emissions version of the QV. What I am saying is, the Downdraft is the most powerful Countach variant produced by Lamborghini, it is the factory's performance version of the QV, it is the only Countach that Lamborghini chose to FIA Homologate, and it does not need to be modified to be acceptable, all indisputable quantifiable facts, not opinion.

 

Joe, i am a little confused regarding the homologation, i was always under the impression the group b was 5 litre,naturaly motors, Countach beeing 5,2 litres,did they have a race engine only,in case they actually planned to enter the car in racing,or am i totally wrong on this(very likely0 and was there another class the car was intended to race in?
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Blah,blah, blah... Like a broken record. The DD setup is old, and antiquated. The F/I is far more reliable, consistant and makes more power than DD with emissions removed. Its Valentino approved! Your statement that torque only matters in a truck for towing, yet again shows you are the clueless one.

 

Record breaking snow in Scottsdale called for a bit of fun!

 

This is yet another claim of yours based on nothing, no data, and no comparative experience with carbureted Countach as a basis for any legitimate conclusion, basically your statement is meaningless to anyone objective.

On the other hand, there is adequate measured & documented proof that the Downdraft is both more powerful & faster, and, Fuelies are not proven to be more reliable in any way, in fact it's quite the opposite as in recent times no less than two (2) of them have caught fire and burned severely as posted on this forum as a result of their deteriorating fuel systems.

That said I will always concede that the Fuelie is better at being the emissions Countach.

The relevance & importance of the Countach's FIA Homologation is spelled out in the Octane May 2018 article entitled "B For Bonkers" (appropriately titled no less) and in the Classic & Sports Car July 2017 article entitled "The Boss' Countach".

Meanwhile, there is a seminal piece coming out on the Countach in a major publication which will cover the Countach's FIA Homologation and address the aforementioned so there is no confusion, and, when the book comes out, this and much more as it relates to the difference between the Downdraft & the Fuelie will also be addressed in a measured & meaningful way.

Sometimes there are better venues than a chat forum for establishing the heritage, design, mechanical specification and differences between certain iconic sports cars.

Stay tuned.

 

This homologation issue means nothing Joe, as the Countach never proved anything on the race track unlike Porsche's and Ferrari's, Chevy's and Ford's. I also had a conversation last year with Valentino. I asked him about FI/DD power differences (FI with headers and sport exaust). He told me equal power just a different torque curve.

 

I will go back and read my magazine (commend your effort in doing this article). Just very confusing the engine displacement thing. In regards to the fia

 

That is one reason I did not renew my Octane subscription. The articles are biased. I realized it when I read the Countach/GTO article. Joey had direct influence on how the article was written.....or he may have written it in its entirety.

Who ever is doing a spell check on my posts ….please....stop. Are you an English major all of a sudden ???

 

The engine displacement is very confusing. That beeing said. I am confused. But 5,2 liters in group b. In the mid 80s.? Makes no sense. Who would they compete against? Then again. I have been wrong before. Please enlighthen me

 

This one list 5000cc +
https://rallygroupbshrine.org/the-group-b-cars/rules-regulations/

Group B seems more like a discussion on WRC cars like a WRX than a Lamborghini.