Missed these two nuggets. The 25th thread is the best resource for that variant that exists anywhere in the world, I'm glad I started it, Im proud of it, I still post in it more than anyone, and the fact that I put my money where my mouth is and owned/operated/maintained 2 separate 25ths underscores the value of the historical, market & technical data contained within. The thread is clearly an enthusiast's appreciation thread, but there is absolutely nothing wrong in starting these threads as I do to also take care of enthusiasts desire to acquire these cars from the market by someone knowledgeable. Sounds like a win-win to me, and a smart business proposition if you ask me. Meanwhile, there are no contradictions between the past and the present, everything I said 6 years ago holds true today, however my focus has moved on to a more collectible, desirable & valuable car, the Downdraft. At least unlike you, I'm not pretending like I don't want a certain variant, I've had them all, and I've arrived at a selective conclusion based on experience. I actually owned 2 Fuelie 25ths for good measure, and I know from that experience that the Downdraft is much better, so if I ever get another 25th it'll be a carbureted car. Looking back, the thing I learned from the 25th thread is that if you want a Quattrovalvole Fuelie, the best car is the end-of-the series 25th. You get a more developed car, one that does not have to become a rest-mod to be acceptable. BTW if you want some Fuelie vs Downdraft opinions, read this thread your buddy Ellagirl started called "DD versus FI" https://www.lamborghinichat.com/forum/threads/dd-versus-fi.509479/ , it makes for fascinating reading, and is a treasure-trove of information if you read the posts from the people that matter who have experience and present real data with supporting images & illustrations.
Not shure reg the reason for my alu hood. But seem to remember another chatter had this type hood also.
I would agree with Joe that it had something to do with the front wing. Probably a cleaner install with the aluminum hood vs cutting the composite hood when you look at the cut edges. I could see both hoods on the qv as Lamborghini was clearing out inventory, if you car was a 85.
Good poin good post, it feels good to be with the one you love,as in my case,thanks for the kind comment, also sounds like you have found your favorit, i do also agree reg your difference in even similar variants comments, due to the nature of these cars assy/production
Well MR Joe, my tread reg the 2 different variants was never intended to be used as a bombardement of negativisme and hate tovards the other variant,it was simply a tecnical information sharing ,based on well known (how things work in the real world) kinda thing, and shame on you for your Octane article spreading fake info reg the fi cars,then again non of this really matters, those really interested in these cars know the truth, in my little circle of people,there is 5 or so Countaches,inkl a carbed Anniversary, Non of the owners read any posts on this chatroom, they simply lost interest based on the bickering and negativisme, They all love their cars,but have no interest in Sackey or Ellagirl bickering, i suggest everybody scale back,promote our cars,all variants, by all means,have your favorit,just be humble, In my bussiness,Boats,we are very successful,our products sell themself,with a huge backlog, our product is superior to most of my competitors,we get paid very well for this,our name in our field is as strong as Lamborghini in the Automotive world, We never down talk our competitors once asked by potentiol buyers,we simpley tell them to go,test,drive witchever brand you are looking at,then give us a call if still interested, this is how we should promote the different variants of the Countach, positive,go drive,all variants,enjoy,share info,as i said all good, no negatve reply needed,mowing forvard.
Originally my idea, when the values were all flat, was to enjoy a different variant every few years. Now too busy (or maybe the realization is more complicated than it's worth) even if it was easy.
You just make things up as you go along? lol Car and Driver 166mph in a DD ROad and Track DD 179mph Fast Lane.... using KM posts to time with a stop watch ....only Sackey believes that one. As for the track, yes 5 seconds is an eternity... but we are discussing acceleration. My point being that since I own both cars, the Testarossa, and the F/I Countach, Ive experienced how hard my Countach pulls the TR. Image Unavailable, Please Login
That would be neat, especially with the crank trigger ignition & improved fuel injection. Years ago there was one , I think a S2, with a QV engine & Bravos. White. The consensus at the times that the engine was a taller block out of a LM002. The car had louvers instead of a deckled. I considered it for a moment or so, but it was up in Canada & the logistics didn't feel good. And only 77k! Ugh.
This is one that would be fun. https://www.racetep.com/manufacturer/carbs-and-injection/weber/conversion-kits/lamborghini-countach-efi-to-weber-conversion-and-distributorless-ignition-system.html Image Unavailable, Please Login There was another, I'll have to look, that converted the webers to a similar looking fuel injection system.
A dig on carbs? Who in their right mind would insinuate carbs need constant adjusting? Image Unavailable, Please Login
This is why I bought an F/I. Because Joe Sackey specificly told me that it is easier to keep in tune. Thank you Joe! Image Unavailable, Please Login
I was so thankful to have Joe around when I was hunting towards my F/I. I was so hung up on getting one of those DD, but he really set me straight. As you can tell here, he is correct on all counts. He also mimics Valentinos words that the F/I cars have better throttle response than the Carbed cars ie (torque) . Image Unavailable, Please Login
I took his exhaust advice and now the power level of my Fuelie is amazing. Image Unavailable, Please Login
If your QV has an aluminum hood it has almost certainly been replaced, especially your 1987 model, and given the fact that your car was modified in the USA with an aftermarket front wing mounted bolted to the hood, surely there's the reason for the composite front hood being replaced with an aluminum one. Exactly. I always thought Countach men were unusual individuals who are not at all thin-skinned, and with that in mind, I don't think there is any bickering here at all, just a lot of lively debate and a healthy exchange of interesting information, no need for anyone to be turned off, all views are voiced and I think it all works wonderfully.
I'm confident @ 350 people besides me believe that one. Poor Allan, let me help you put all this in perspective, what we have here is the difference between an armchair amateur and a professional. I possess what must surely be the most detailed database of technical material & period performance results regarding the Downdraft extant. Clearly your little magazine collection is incomplete as you have just proven, or you would know that fully almost 2 years before Valentino drove that Downdraft in 1987 @ Volkswagen's Ehra-Lessien test track coming off the banking on a very wet track to 179 mph (it was Valentino who recorded the best time not Paul Frere or Phill Hill by the way, but you wouldn't know that because it's not in the magazine), a 1985 Downdraft was tested by Road & Track magazine's European senior editor and regular contributor Hans Jürgen Tuchscherer to 188 MPH electronically timed in Germany. Look it up, there's a little homework for you. As regards the Fast Lane Downdraft, it belonged to F1 and Le Mans-winning racecar driver Pierluigi Martini, with a factory blueprinted and tuned engine of @ 470-480 bhp, driven in optimal conditions. Per both Piero Martini and Peter Dron in recent times, all the factors were suited for the extra few mph it attained: driver skill, engine output, low altitude, high humidity in the Italian summer, smooth autostrada, and max tire pressures. The Martini Downdraft was set up by the works to use 7,800 rpms with an air-box spacer to increase induction airflow and it accomplished a mean of 191 mph, as the factory representative has already confirmed on the record. As the factory Chief Engineer himself has stated, raising the revs from 7300/7400 to 7800 means the Downdraft with sport cams & 470 bhp can achieve 314 kph/195 mph without stress to the unit. As anyone who has studied top speed tests knows, many factors affect the terminal velocity, the combination of which can mean a significant difference even with the same car in the same state of tune, here are some of them for your benefit: - Altitude of test location (lower altitude has thicker air which makes a little more HP). - Humidity (higher humidity can make higher HP). - Fuel Octane (higher can make more HP). - Wind speed and direction (real VMAX runs are done twice in opposite directions and averaged, even then the results can be affected by lateral or partially lateral wind). - Gradient (may be slightly up hill or downhill so real VMAX runs are done twice in opposite directions and averaged). - Weight of occupants (higher weight reduces speed). - Fuel load (higher fuel load reduces speed). - Tire PSI (higher PSI increases OA tire diameter making higher VMAX, and front-to-rear PSI increases or decreases the pitch angle of the car, see graph below) - Tire tread (worn tread makes more speed) - Suspension settings (toe-in & camber influences top speed) - Engine spec & tune (a basic engine puts out @ 455 bhp and a factory blueprinted engine @ 470 bhp, these numbers are also affected by state of ignition, carburation and airflow optimization) - Driver experience (professionals can exact more speed that's why Valentino got more speed out of the Downdraft at VW in 1987 than 2 World Champions who were not as familiar with the car as he was). - Mechanical sympathy (test car well run-in and in optimum state of tune & condition?). - Redline-limited (expect +/- 2 mph = 4 mph range) - Road surfaces (then more texturized, the more rolling resistance which can affect VMAX by several mph, and contrary to popular belief a wet surface has the later effect) - Appendages (the rear wing acts as an air-brake for example) Anyway, the bottom line is, the speed numbers over 180 mph as compiled in-period for the Downdraft are: Factory official - 183 mph Autocar - 180 mph Sport Auto - 183 mph Auto Motor und Sport - 185 mph Road & Track - 188 mph Fast Lane - 191 mph Image Unavailable, Please Login
Car & Driver 166 mph? Only you believe that was really the Downdraft's time, in fact Aaron Kiley of Car & Driver magazine confirmed that with all the material to edit and compose for the article, they mixed the times, you can easily see why below Image Unavailable, Please Login
In another expert with images taken by Kiley, you can see the Downdraft on the track, and it's speedo @ 180mph, and yet you can see that in the panel they mixed the specs up and used the Fuelie's (Bosch K-Jetronic EFI) specs instead of the Downraft's specs . In publishing editing errors & omissions were a fact of life, but unless you have actually done any independent corroborating research, you'll continue to parrot the same mistakes. Regardless, the corroborated in-period times for the Downdraft which were consistently over 180 mph are established as: Factory official - 183 mph Autocar - 180 mph Sport Auto - 183 mph Auto Motor und Sport - 185 mph Road & Track - 188 mph Fast Lane - 191 mph Image Unavailable, Please Login
Not the same sound at all and that's not what was said, but you'll undoubtedly get the same snap-crackle-pop sound with a sport exhaust on a Fuelie, that's what I said. The Downdraft has a deeper, more burbly, sonorous sound, on open throttle the induction whistle is mesmerizing. 5 years after I made that statement, I heard the Mimran Downdraft after it's restoration was complete. Have you heard it? I changed my mind! It's not even comparable to the Fuelie 25th I had at the time, which I thought was as good as anything. You have to understand, unlike you, some people do move on and are open to new standards. Thank goodness. Of course the Fuelie is easier to keep in tune, that's well understood, but that doesn't mean it's easier to tune in the first place, or more reliable, or more powerful! At this point in my collective experience, I'll take carbs any day, again, I actually put my money where my mouth is and tried all the variants, Fuelie included, and the resounding verdict is in favor of a Downdraft. I'll easily agree that 5 years after having made those comments, having been reunited with a handful of Downdrafts, my opinion has advanced, and here is why. I came to realize after owning every variant of Countach (unlike you) that the Downdraft is the ultimate QV Countach is underscored by 5 basic verifiable and indisputable facts: 1. The Downdraft engine is the performance engine whilst the Fuelie engine is the emissions engine - fact. 2. The Downdraft engine is more powerful than the Fuelie engine by far, we now have supporting data on this, stay tuned - fact. 3. Whether you think it is meaningless or not, the factory Homologated the Downdraft because it is the performance version of the QV, and not the Fuelie, even though it had the choice - fact. 4. The factory kept building Downdraft Countachs until the very last one made, and they chose that Downdraft go keep in their Museo, and not a Fuelie, even though it had the choice - fact. 5. Bottom-line there is a reason why Downdrafts are worth twice the value of a Fuelie - fact. All of which is exactly why anyone who loves a Countach would want one, including you Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
