Countach, the ultimate supercar

Spyder-Man · Sep 28, 2022

Car_jack805 said: ↑

Just out of curiosity, what is everyone's opinion on the new countach lp800-4? Personally, I think they did a disservice towards the original car.
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I don't dislike the car, but it's a parts bin special and Lambo used it as a cash cow. Centenario front end, mainly Aventador with a rear end of Sian thrown in for good measure. I think Lambo used it as a marketing exercise around the 50th purely for their P&L and nothing else. Call it what you like, just don't call it a Countach.

Also, I don't think it went that well for Lambo. There has been a lot of negative reaction around it, this was maybe reflected in Winkleman's statement that Lambo will no longer look back on their legacy but only forward.

I'm not a fan of bringing back a historical name or having a tribute model made today. Fezza are doing it with the Daytona SP3, but gotta be honest, the new Daytona looks amazing and I love it.

Ellagirl · Sep 28, 2022

I personally like the cars design(most of it) do not like the wheel openings, its a fairly clean uncluttered deal, some elements are actually really clever in emphasizing the Supercar theme. But i will 100% agree on the name thing, They should have kept the Countach out of it.

LamboLove · Sep 28, 2022

joe sackey said: ↑

The stunning ex-Adnan Khashogghi 1120204 at the Concours of Elegance at Hampton Court Palace recently.

View attachment 2670173
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Awesome!
Do you happen to know who made the restoration in Italy? That is stunning indeed!

Peter K. · Sep 28, 2022

joe sackey said: ↑

A common problem indeed.
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Lemacc said: ↑

These are the original Ariston shocks of #1121066.
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They can be rebuilt perfectly.

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orangelp400 · Sep 28, 2022

I am going to have to disagree with other posts. The Hampton Court Palace LP400 was restored by Polo Storico the historic arm of the Lamborghini factory. I am not knocking this car which is more than presentable but really, these full restorations are never right in so many ways and the cars value, like all similar fully restored Lamborghinis should be half the value of a nicely maintained one.

I will not go into detail but this car has had all the soul sucked out of it. I am not picking out this car as I would have no problem owning it, but all restorations done by anyone. The cars end up butchered. As cars age over years, like you favourite jacket, they take on a form of their own as all seems to "settle" and come together. It is experienced by the way the engine sounds and the performance as well as the fit of the leather to illustrate the spectrum as the aging can be detected everywhere.

This car like all full restorations looks tarted up. It is such a shame.

Of course cars need to be maintained and kept on the road and work that is required should be done, but with a sympathy to the cars history and age. And of course there are occasions when there is no practical choice, and a full restoration is required. But not often.

The nonsense of " as it left the factory " is just nonsense as it is unachievable and I do not believe the hallowed mythical concept anyway as the factory workers would perhaps laugh that the product they shoved out the door would obtain some revered mythical point-in-history status.

Lets be blunt, no full restoration is as it left the factory or as new, or in anyway represents the cars history and age and use, all most important for its provenance.

The sooner we stop encouraging this bastardisation, the better.

Boomhauer · Sep 28, 2022

@mark_scenemedia

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joe sackey · Sep 28, 2022

LamboLove said: ↑

Awesome!
Do you happen to know who made the restoration in Italy? That is stunning indeed!
Click to expand...

I believe Cairati Milano did the work for Polo Storico.

orangelp400 said: ↑

I am going to have to disagree with other posts. The Hampton Court Palace LP400 was restored by Polo Storico the historic arm of the Lamborghini factory. I am not knocking this car which is more than presentable but really, these full restorations are never right in so many ways and the cars value, like all similar fully restored Lamborghinis should be half the value of a nicely maintained one.

I will not go into detail but this car has had all the soul sucked out of it. I am not picking out this car as I would have no problem owning it, but all restorations done by anyone. The cars end up butchered. As cars age over years, like you favourite jacket, they take on a form of their own as all seems to "settle" and come together. It is experienced by the way the engine sounds and the performance as well as the fit of the leather to illustrate the spectrum as the aging can be detected everywhere.

This car like all full restorations looks tarted up. It is such a shame.

Of course cars need to be maintained and kept on the road and work that is required should be done, but with a sympathy to the cars history and age. And of course there are occasions when there is no practical choice, and a full restoration is required. But not often.

The nonsense of " as it left the factory " is just nonsense as it is unachievable and I do not believe the hallowed mythical concept anyway as the factory workers would perhaps laugh that the product they shoved out the door would obtain some revered mythical point-in-history status.

Lets be blunt, no full restoration is as it left the factory or as new, or in anyway represents the cars history and age and use, all most important for its provenance.

The sooner we stop encouraging this bastardisation, the better.
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Stephen,

You own a nice original LP400 so I can see why your preference is for the preservation of original cars, a noble cause indeed by the way, meanwhile another nicely preserved example is Richard Earl's LP400 1120106.

You are right, the majority (but not all) restored cars are over-restored with shinier-than-original textures and way-too-gold cad-plating etc to the point where they don't resemble the original artifact, and, most importantly they feature a number of small mistakes, especially of the interior, which is nearly impossible, it seems, to do correctly. We don't need to get into the details, we've seen a number on display, and yes, the Giallo car I referred to as stunning has seat padding that is not nearly as full as the original items were, to cite just one fault, dressed up as it was for the show with heavy application tire dressing I can see where you're coming from.

Sometimes restorers make mistakes because they have no period reference points so I have no issue with that as their work can be corrected, I really only have an issue with owners who proclaim that the car was "exactly as it left the factory" when in fact experienced eyes can see the car is far from that, perhaps I should get involved in judging Lamborghini classes (!) as the only ones I have met had no idea what was correct for period, but I digress.

That said, we can't disparage all restorations, I know of some accurate ones that were sympathetically executed, so too, an accident car such as 1120250 deserves to be fully restored, as do all the LP400 that are being rescued from the LP400S they were modified into.

I take it you won't be turning your car over to Polo Storico anytime soon!

Hope you are well.

orangelp400 · Sep 29, 2022

Hi Joe, I am well thank you. I am ambivalent to Polio Storico. I am very pleased that the factory has recognised the wonderful back catalogue of cars that Lamborghini has produced over the years yet somewhat cynical regarding its historic arm as being solely a money making affront to all the enthusiasts of the older cars.

I think the latest "Countach" did not help in this regard.

If the factory was serious about its heritage, a platform of all the info it holds and advice and help with maintaining and restoring the cars would be worthwhile to all. Including what was bought in from whom. Although I do have to say this very forum does go some way to achieve this especially with such knowledgeable enthusiasts available such as your good self. I do not know what info the factory holds, perhaps very little but it would be nice to know exactly. If there is lots there it deserves to be available to the wider Lamborghini community .

Yes Joe, I am surprised your encyclopaedic Lamborghini knowledge isn't used more often at the great shows, or in fact with the restorations. Polo Storico should employ you!

I do have to say that I used to think restoring a car to an all shiny state was great. But as I have got older and perhaps become more of a connoisseur of older cars I have changed my mind.

Also I have become interested in vintage cars ( as we call them here, not sure about the USA but pre-war cars if you like so '20s and '30s) where the battle scars of a Le Mars Bentley means a lot..... no, it means everything. Cars from the '30s should look like cars from the '30s and its the same with cars from the '70s or '80s. I have seen Richard Earls LP400 and I agree with you.

It is such an experience to be able to see a well maintained, "wholesome" I call it , car that has been looked after and loved by previous owners without looking like a dressed up restored tart shouting " I am owned by an ignorant fool". OK, a little strong perhaps but I am hoping to make a point here.

Again , I agree with you that cars converted to LP400s spec should be returned to the original spec ( well as we both know, as close as possible) but this does not require a full restoration methinks unless all the car is a wreck. Why should the interior be renewed or the engine done up all shiny. Fix what needs to be fixed and leave the rest alone I say. I would rather see a repair patched nicely into the drivers seat than see a whole new interior.

Most importantly . unrestored cars act as a reference to factory spec and a guide for any part of restoration. If we restore all the cars we will be lost. History and provenance will be lost forever. I am sure you Joe can only pick holes in any Countach restoration only because you have seen so many original ones. But shiny, as new cars, win shiny awards for the mantlepiece. I am thankful that people are happy to invest large sums into a full restoration when required and this should be lauded but we should see this for what it is, it creates a great car perhaps but not a original one. Nor one to factory spec. Nor one at the top of the price and desirability range.

All owners are custodians and we have a duty to perform.

joe sackey · Sep 29, 2022

orangelp400 said: ↑

Hi Joe, I am well thank you. I am ambivalent to Polio Storico. I am very pleased that the factory has recognised the wonderful back catalogue of cars that Lamborghini has produced over the years yet somewhat cynical regarding its historic arm as being solely a money making affront to all the enthusiasts of the older cars.

I think the latest "Countach" did not help in this regard.

If the factory was serious about its heritage, a platform of all the info it holds and advice and help with maintaining and restoring the cars would be worthwhile to all. Including what was bought in from whom. Although I do have to say this very forum does go some way to achieve this especially with such knowledgeable enthusiasts available such as your good self. I do not know what info the factory holds, perhaps very little but it would be nice to know exactly. If there is lots there it deserves to be available to the wider Lamborghini community .

Yes Joe, I am surprised your encyclopaedic Lamborghini knowledge isn't used more often at the great shows, or in fact with the restorations. Polo Storico should employ you!

I do have to say that I used to think restoring a car to an all shiny state was great. But as I have got older and perhaps become more of a connoisseur of older cars I have changed my mind.

Also I have become interested in vintage cars ( as we call them here, not sure about the USA but pre-war cars if you like so '20s and '30s) where the battle scars of a Le Mars Bentley means a lot..... no, it means everything. Cars from the '30s should look like cars from the '30s and its the same with cars from the '70s or '80s. I have seen Richard Earls LP400 and I agree with you.

It is such an experience to be able to see a well maintained, "wholesome" I call it , car that has been looked after and loved by previous owners without looking like a dressed up restored tart shouting " I am owned by an ignorant fool". OK, a little strong perhaps but I am hoping to make a point here.

Again , I agree with you that cars converted to LP400s spec should be returned to the original spec ( well as we both know, as close as possible) but this does not require a full restoration methinks unless all the car is a wreck. Why should the interior be renewed or the engine done up all shiny. Fix what needs to be fixed and leave the rest alone I say. I would rather see a repair patched nicely into the drivers seat than see a whole new interior.

Most importantly . unrestored cars act as a reference to factory spec and a guide for any part of restoration. If we restore all the cars we will be lost. History and provenance will be lost forever. I am sure you Joe can only pick holes in any Countach restoration only because you have seen so many original ones. But shiny, as new cars, win shiny awards for the mantlepiece. I am thankful that people are happy to invest large sums into a full restoration when required and this should be lauded but we should see this for what it is, it creates a great car perhaps but not a original one. Nor one to factory spec. Nor one at the top of the price and desirability range.

All owners are custodians and we have a duty to perform.
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The factory holds all the build sheets with some invaluable information, for a nominal fee they ought to make it available to the proven owners of classic cars in the Lamborghini community.

My Lamborghini knowledge is based on the personal ownership of almost 2 dozen Countachs & Miuras combined over the past 35 years starting when Countachs were still being built at Sant Agata, and includes at least 100 other examples I have seen & inspected in my specialization, meanwhile in fact I do act as a consultant on certain restorations, so that's my small contribution to originality. That said, nowadays there is a tendency for people to want to re-write history to suit their vision of how they want it to be, often times based on knowledge or ownership of just one car, so you can see why restorations often end up creating something that's not faithful to the car's original guise.

By the way I believe Richard Earl's original LP400 is available and represents a huge opportunity because one day LP400s will likely emerge again as the market leader amongst variants that they once were.

By the way, one reason some Countachs require a full restoration is that, unlike meticulous custodians such as yourself where the car can depend on you to take care of all it's needs over the years, many were neglected or run on a shoestring budget over the early years so they are really too far gone to make partial repairs a viable or useful proposition. In other words, for a car to remain wonderfully original 40 years later, it has to have had the luck of an owner such as yourself, Richard, etc etc.

Unrestored cars do act as a reference to factory spec but the good news is we know of a fair number of cars that are still original amongst all the variants, and I do believe that most of those cars will continue to be preserved that way rather than be unnecessarily restored.

As regards values, I am afraid we are living in an age where not all the money is being spent astutely (read: more money than knowledge) so some people are paying up for stuff that doesn't warrant the achieved value whereas some gems are being overlooked and sometimes nice original cars fall into the later category.

mt_jt · Sep 29, 2022

Wings:
Who manufactured them?
Where were they installed?
Were they painted at Lamborghini?
When removing the wing, how are the attachment points commonly concealed and/or masked?

Thanks in advance!

LamboLove · Sep 30, 2022

joe sackey said: ↑

I believe Cairati Milano did the work for Polo Storico.
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Nice, how it is Polo Storico? I've always heard about it and it is interesting to know what they do and how they do it

joe sackey · Sep 30, 2022

LamboLove said: ↑

Nice, how it is Polo Storico? I've always heard about it and it is interesting to know what they do and how they do it
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These days they outsource the work to individual companies, such as Cairati Milano https://www.instagram.com/cairatimilano/?hl=en

Car_Jack805 · Sep 30, 2022

Can anybody tell me the material the Countach's wing is made of?

EarlyCat · Sep 30, 2022

Aluminum with a foam core. This thread might help bring you up to speed. https://lamborghinichat.com/forum/threads/countach-wings-thread.241029/#post-138601136

Marcello · Oct 1, 2022

This very special coloured RHD Countach 5000 S was pictured by my friend Marcel de Lange at Silverstone, UK, in Juli 1993. Then owned by David Balbert, Middlesex, London. On plates ELN 238Y (GB) He painted his garage door this Apricot colour. He then took the Dulux colour chart to someone or other who matched it and painted his Countach to match! Peach with mid brown leather 5000S. Sports Exhaust and pinstriped wheels. This was later re-painted by Modena Lamborghini in High Wycombe to dark Blue, black wheels and the leather was left original mid-brown. It is now in Australia. Only Countaches got away with these lairy colours!!! More info and pictures of this car can be seen at my www.countach-register.com, please check it out!
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joe sackey · Oct 1, 2022

Marcello said: ↑

He painted his garage door this Apricot colour. He then took the Dulux colour chart to someone or other who matched it and painted his Countach to match! Peach with mid brown leather 5000S
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When you say he "painted his Countach to match" the Apricot color, to be clear, it was Automobili Lamborghini who painted the car that color at the Sant Agata factory when new.

I encountered DLA12576 at a Portman Lamborghini Service center open day in the mid-80s, this car's livery is Avorio Rosa (Ivory Pink) with Tobacco interior, new to Portman London May the 4th 1983, subsequently UK registered ELN 238Y in June, IMO it's a real shame this one-off color was repainted.

Keep up the good work Marcel.

Marcello · Oct 2, 2022

joe sackey said: ↑

When you say he "painted his Countach to match" the Apricot color, to be clear, it was Automobili Lamborghini who painted the car that color at the Sant Agata factory when new.

I encountered DLA12576 at a Portman Lamborghini Service center open day in the mid-80s, this car's livery is Avorio Rosa (Ivory Pink) with Tobacco interior, new to Portman London May the 4th 1983, subsequently UK registered ELN 238Y in June, IMO it's a real shame this one-off color was repainted.

Keep up the good work Marcel.
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Yes, I have Rosa in my files as well. Good point Joe! So the Apricot garage door story is probably a fairy tale, unless it was the first owner who had the car painted by the factory to match with his garage door. I will correct the info of this car, thanks a lot!

raymondQV · Oct 2, 2022

Marcello said: ↑

Yes, I have Rosa in my files as well. Good point Joe! So the Apricot garage door story is probably a fairy tale, unless it was the first owner who had the car painted by the factory to match with his garage door. I will correct the info of this car, thanks a lot!
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Or it was vice versa, ordered the car in this color and matched the garage door to the car, only possibility would be to get to know from the first owner.

joe sackey · Oct 2, 2022

Marcello said: ↑

Yes, I have Rosa in my files as well. Good point Joe! So the Apricot garage door story is probably a fairy tale, unless it was the first owner who had the car painted by the factory to match with his garage door. I will correct the info of this car, thanks a lot!
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raymondQV said: ↑

Or it was vice versa, ordered the car in this color and matched the garage door to the car, only possibility would be to get to know from the first owner.
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The Dulux story is just that, a story that was being traded in the 80s by some UK Lamborghini Club members after the car was first seen at an event, someone said that it looked like a color from the home builder paint supplier's color chart, which it really does, and that story and subsequent variations of it stuck.

However the factual story is the car was ordered in this unique livery and delivered that way by the factory. When I saw the car in the 80s I didn't care for the paint choice but the Tobacco (brown) interior looked fabulous, you almost never see it in a post-LP400.

Perhaps the first owner was inspired by a Rolls Royce Cornice in a similar livery...

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LamboLove · Oct 4, 2022

joe sackey said: ↑

These days they outsource the work to individual companies, such as Cairati Milano https://www.instagram.com/cairatimilano/?hl=en
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It appears to me that you really like this Cairati! So are they the main workshop for Polostorico?

EMILIO · Oct 5, 2022

They have some shops and there is not really a MAIN one

joe sackey · Oct 5, 2022

LamboLove said: ↑

It appears to me that you really like this Cairati! So are they the main workshop for Polostorico?
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I do like them, as do many insiders, their work speaks for itself, but as Emilio says they are one of several shops the factory uses for their Polo Storico program.

EMILIO said: ↑

They have some shops and there is not really a MAIN one
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Correct.

Boomhauer · Oct 6, 2022

@supercarownerscircle

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Jalpa_Mike · Oct 10, 2022

Looking around on the interwebs today, I stumbled on this site from Japan of Nakamura Engineering and their restoration of various components of a 5000QV DD. Lots and lots of photos of the suspension, heim joints, hubs, etc. Only thing that would have been nice to see is replacing the shocks/springs with the OEM inatead of the aftermarket units.

https://www.nakamuraengineering.com/report/lamborghini%E3%80%805000%E3%80%80クワトロバルボーレ/

Mike

Rossocorsa1 · Oct 15, 2022

Great period photos taken of Portman Lamborghini in London, the UK’s exclusive concessionaire. It must have been a magical place to walk into. These via @SheikhAmari.

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