Countach, the ultimate supercar

Yes, it is true! I have full documentation of the following, performed with cars it tip-top running condition:

I have achieved 188.4 mph which is 303.2 kph in a 1975 LP400. However, the tach was at 8000 rpm (assuming the tach is 100% accurate), so that was it without risking damaging something.

BTW, the top speed I achieved in a '88 1/2 Euro DD was 182.4 mph. It was hitting the rev limiter, but might have had a little more without the rev limiter.

So, the top speed of a LP400 is greater than the next fastest Countach, the DD. The reason is because of the lower rev limitation of the DD. The DD was quite a bit faster up to around 125mph, but then it started slowing, where the LP400 was slower to that speed, but kept on pulling better beyond that speed than the DD did. I contribute that difference to the more streamlined shape of the LP400.

 

Some cool pics of these two cars........

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Not only the QV, also the LP5000s in Switzerland and hot countries in Arabia. Swiss cars have 3 fans, arabian even 4.

Hmm, rev limit of the MM ignition box used on the QV and 25th is at 7800rpm, LP5000s had the same box but no rev limiter.
For sure the tacho and speedo are not accurate, since the LP400 was told to run 315kmh which is exactly the gear ratio at 8000rpm... The fastest offical measured countach was the 88,5 of Pier-Luigi Martini reaching 312kmh which reflects 7800rpm. Since Lamborghini was known to have special engines for special clients (like Formula One drivers) that engine must have had around 500hp. German magazine Auto Motor & Sport tested the QV 1986 at 298kmh at 7400rpm.

The 25th has a slightly shorter gear ration which is the reason why it accelerates as good as a QV although it weights 100Kg more (of course the new model couldn't be slower on 0-60mph than the QV...)

Correct, and looking at your pictures it's obvious that with that protection you improved the drag coefficient at the front significantly which explains the excellent top speeds.

 

Hi Raymond. As you can see in the pic, the LP400 had smaller tires....Hoosier 245/60/ZR14 instead of the taller Michelin XWX...just because the shorter Hoosier tires were the only Z rated tires I could find. They are shorter and wider than stock. That is why my top speed was lower at 8K rpm. I know the gauges aren't accurate but we measured electronically. On the DD, I was using a Burtoni (MSD) ignition with a lower rev limit of 7250 rpm. I don't know why, but that is how Al Burtoni set it up. The gauges aren't accurate...I know! See, in the pic of the DD gauges, the tach was only reading 6900 rpm but was really 7250 rpm! There the speed was 182.4 and I could feel the rev limiter cutting out the ignition....

 

As expert for MSD ignitions I can tell you that Burtoni used a standard MSD 7 AL-2, they simply plugged in a standard MSD rev module with removed sticker.
If you want to have a higher rev limit, buy a set of 11'000 rev limiter plugs and calculate 11'000/12 * 8 = 7333rpm, the same set contains also a 11'800 plug = 7866rpm.

I asked MSD years ago, they never changed the tacho/rev limiter circuit on a single box from V8 to V12 for Burtoni, I opened one of these mighty V12 Enginnering boxes and it was plain stock, since MSD seals the entire unit with epoxy!

http://www.countach.ch/MSD.html

 

joe

if wallace told you he say 300km electrically time i wouldnt doubt it. now was that a stock LP400? he would also tell you today the highest spec production 4 liter motor (that isnt a costumer special) had not much more than 300hp real world crank horsepower and not anywhere close to reputed specs 375 of the LP400.

one can deduce a top speed of a vehicle relatively easily. lets say 300-320hp in a car with relatively poor Cd A and a coefficient of drag of near .40 (A LP400S/LP500/DD with flares no wing is said to have a Cd.42) how much power would you think a car would need with Cd of.40 to come near the 300kph with exponential factor of 4? even if it had the claimed 375hp it wouldnt even be close.

For comparison sake, a modern F360 with 400-425hp and respectable Cd of .34 does (factory claimed) 295kph. the numbers required to get a LP400 magical 300kph is just a bridge too far.

now whatever the speedo of the SW or Jeager gauges reads isnt most likely what the car is really doing. nearly all the vintage italian cars speedo are optimistic in my limited experience . old school tachs arent that reliable either.

i once had a rental 140hp ford mondeo speedo up to 148mph going down hill with a strong backwind on the motorway in europe. should i claim thats a 150mph car? top speed test should be run on flat surface both ways using calibrated equipment.

i reckon the DD 455hp power ratings are much closer to truth than the LP400 375 when you look at the tested weight and acceleration plus drag. the highest figure i recall reading was a FastLane DD countach near 300kph. I just refuse to believe a LP400 does anywhere near that despite the multiple stories. when magazine do use calibrated electronic equipment to test early countachs, the top speed figure fall woefully short of the claims.

anyhow hats off for to Victor f for running his LP400 in anger!! whether its 285kph or 260kph, its still bloody fast for a early 70's design.

respectfully

hf

 

The DD speedo is extremely accurate, I tested with the GPS Navigation, at 100mph it's only 1mph off...
Fast Lane tested Martini's car, 312kmh which means at the redline, I doubt there was another car delivering more hp than this 88.5.

Agree, keep in mind than hp is only a calculated value, derived from the torque and the rpm, a modern formula one engine has only 300Nm but 750hp at 18'000rpm.
Torque is more or less directly related from the cubic inch, whereas it depends from the engine setting where the torque peak is located and how the curve is formed.

 

Correct, It was used already in 1987 for the comparison test of german Magazine "sport auto" against the testarossa in Hockenheim.
Have to browse through my magazine collection, I think the fast lane car was a 88.5, perhaps already with the shorter 25th gearing.

Here the test: http://www.countach.ch/SportAuto1987/index.html
and one of the first DD tests in 1985: http://www.countach.ch/TestAMS1986/index.html

Joe, do you know this car? http://www.countach.ch/SportAuto79/index.html

 

I always thought they were added for the extra cooling needs of the 4 valve engine.

Maybe I am wrong seeing that your 4 valve car did not have them installed.

In my LP5000S parts book I show the both the two and four fan radiator configuration.

Possibly it was a hot climate option. Hopefully someone else will chime in on the subject.

Sincerely Vic

 

After reading through the threads further I noticed Raymonds post on the subject here.

 

Victor, I remember seeing your white LP400 at that Beyond the West event in Montana. I recall taking that photo and wondering about the silver duct tape all over the front end. Must have been before 3M came out with their StoneGuard product. Or maybe your idea was the inspiration. So I have to ask... Isn't the glue from that duct tape horrible stuff to get off the paint?

 

Yes, that was a great rally and I miss them! Too bad she quit putting them on. The glue came off pretty easily with some of that Goo Gone adhesive remover, and it didn't hurt the paint either.

 

We'll just have to talk Jane out of her retirement and get those Rallies going again.

 

I find it mind boggling that owners who spent a cazillion dollars in restoring LP400 drivetrains dont spend $65 dollars to see, monitor and confirm how there engines are running. with the accessibility of dyno shop these day evey countach should be tuned on a rolling road to just to confirm its mixture setting if not to find out what the power outputs are.

my hunch is that yes there have been numerous CT dynoed. is it possible that owner keep the low dyno results to themselves? you 3 CT owners involved in this conversation may want to dyno your cars yourselves to find out? just dont post the results here...lol


stanzini motors of the urracco and later (Giulio Alfieri) like the early 70's 308 motors where substantially inaccurate. according to recently rebuilt motors to of 2.5 v8 220hp (claimed) vs dynoed 140 rwhp = 170-180hp. a healthy jalpa 3.5 255hp (claimed) vs dynoed 173hp = around 220hp. it has been well documented that a euro 308 output is near a later QV motor at 230-240 rather than the 255hp printed on the brochures.

on an early R&T test wallace claims the LP CT was under 2400lbs. when R&T put one on there scales for the 76 test, it weighed over 3000lbs. now the it may have been dry rather than curb weight but i dont think fuel, oil and fluids made up the 600lbs difference. im sure current owners have weighted there owners to confirm this also.

i believe when the DD came around the factory have became much more honest with the printed specifications.

whatever the case, all this hear-say and stories has certainly add the legendary CT mystique.... and it dosent hinder there desirability one iota

all the best

HF

 

I know my countach, it weights about 1500 Kilo, with luggage but tank not full.
it was on the dyno, it reached 397bhp but with the muffler restricted, I can only sign that the engine numbers are italian fairytales.
Look how they tested these engines, no airbox above the carbs, italian exhaust muffler you don't know what is insinde, like this you can imagine they reached 455hp on the engine dyno, but never ever in the car.

Engine dyno picture a swiss (covered headers and CO tubes in the headers) DD engine 1985: http://www.countach.ch/TestAMS1986/TestQV_5.jpg

 

Been reading the recent posts with some amazment! I have an espada which apparently has 350bhp. Same engine as the early CT 400's. My own reckoning is about 320bhp at bes. When lambo increased the capacity to 4.0L I think the mauin differences were the carbs. Between the series I II and III espadas I wasnt sure there were any real differences! Although lambo claimed steadily increasing power form an identical engine!

So to get top speed we then get into the calculations of drag x weight x power

The tacho on my CT isnt't accurate. The speedo certianly isn't. I could never work out why the LP400's were apparnetly so much lighter than th later 5000 or QV's?? I appreciate the QV's had a different engine ,but the body steel tubes etc were much the same. 200kg difference???? Well if they were where was the difference? Less tubes? Less hot air????

The relaible car magazines tested these cars a lot and had difficulty matching the factory figures. Individal cars can vary +/- 10% in all cases. But a base LP400 CT doing 180+ ??.

Whilst I do not doubt the word of what people are posting, the suggestion that only using the tacho or speedo on a car as a means of measurment isn't relaible. You need to check their accuracy and then determine the readings AT THAT TIME! tyre wear and temp can alter the accuracy.

I love my CT and other cars, but try not to be hooked up in the myth. My QV is a very fast car. In full tune light fuel load etc it may be very quick even by todays standards. But a 185+ car?? On a level road with no wind and no rear spoiler? Possibly. a LP400? with 130bhp less or thereby? Sorry I don't think so. Do the maths. Will check the formula and post when I can, that is drag x bhp x weight.

Paul

Glasgow
UK