Countach vs Testarossa

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by Skogens Baron, Mar 8, 2010.

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  1. Skogens Baron

    Skogens Baron Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2006
    257
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Daniel
    #1 Skogens Baron, Mar 8, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
    I started the topic anyway ;) I didnt find any tread with a similar topic anywhere..

    I have a 1986 TR.. But my ultimate dreamcar is a LP400.. I know that I may never get my LP400.. So I may be buing a later car.. A countach is within budget if I sell my TR..

    Performance wise isnt all that interesting.. But serious opinions from people who knows both cars is aprecciated..

    They both are 80's icons for sure.. I've never even driven a countach.. The testarossa is a blast to drive.. Anyhow, I love vintage cars best.. And I love carbed cars and the old feeling best, like in my Urraco, Alfetta GTV or my Fiat Dino..

    Will the countach be more old fashion?
    Nothing beats the looks of the countach and I really have to have one some day..

    Then there is maintainance costs.. The TR have to do the belts every 5 years or so.. The countach dont.. But i have the impression that the countach is less reliable in other areas?

    Any input on that?

    Every opinion is aprecciated ;)

    wich one would you choose if you couldn't have both ;)

    Bedt regards from
    Daniel dreaming of owning a countach ;)
     
  2. vaholtorf

    vaholtorf Formula 3
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    Jul 7, 2006
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    Well, the TR was made to take the 'top speed' title back away from the 5000S Countach, and it did, by a little. So Lambo came back with the QV, which took that title back away from Ferrari, by a little. Then the F40 took it back, by a lot, and then the Diablo took it back away again, by a little, and so goes the story.....
    But, honestly, a Countach and TR are really similar in performance, and only an expert driver on a track or controlled environment could notice any real significant difference, so you are down to looks, maintenance, and comfort unless you are a hard-core high-performance driver.
    Looks: This is completely subjective and only you know what look you prefer.
    Maintenance: Similar, with the advantage to the Lambo if we are talking about cars in great condition that were well maintained. Timing chains help the Lambo, but clutch cost is double on the Lambo.
    Comfort: TR wins here....easier to see out of, get in and out of, and smoother, lighter controls.
    I think you have to drive a Countach to compare.
    This is all just my opinion and others may disagree.....
     
  3. Jedi

    Jedi Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Mar 18, 2008
    27,542
    Seattle Area
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    Jedi
    I've had the luxury of driving both - the TR wins (to ME) hands down. It's not
    my favorite car - too big for my taste, and HARD to turn in tight spaces (my
    driveway, tight parking lots). But the Countach is a BEAST by comparison.
    IMPOSSIBLE to see out of except to the front, the windows don't really open,
    and the CLUTCH!!! I'd have to hit the gym more to beef up my left leg. Maybe
    the one I drove wasn't adjusted right, but it was a HARD clutch. It's also VERY
    expensive to replace - as I understand it, the engine has to come out to change
    anything in the clutch - a $10k service.

    Were it ME, I'd go TR long before CT - no matter how much I like the CT - which
    I do.

    Jedi
     
  4. Skogens Baron

    Skogens Baron Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2006
    257
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Daniel
    Thank you for your input.. really dont have had the oportunity to drive the countach.. But will for sure if I have the oportunity anytime soon :)

    So your choice is? ;) More comfort in the TR? For a trip across europe the TR is the car to have?

    Cheers

    Daniel
     
  5. AIR4C 1

    AIR4C 1 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 3, 2005
    645
    Calgary, Alberta
    The TR is a wonderful car. It is big and wide and low. They drive very nicely, are comfortable and easy to see out of. I like them alot as they have the old character and feel that I like most in vintage cars.
    The Countach is a more macho vehicle and both commands are requires more attention. Nothing compares to the feel of a Countach. They are far more rare. WAAAYYYY more rare. Service is about the same in my experience as the Lambo is a reliable car if taken care of. I just think the lambo is another level above the Tr in terms of excitement and testosterone.
    I have driven all configurations and nothing compares to a DD car!
     
  6. vaholtorf

    vaholtorf Formula 3
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    Again, it is your choice. If I were single and looking for adventure, I would take a Countach, and I would stop every couple of hours or so to stretch my legs for a bit. If I were married and wanted to enjoy the trip without as much adventure, I'd take the more comfortable, easier to drive, but less exciting TR.

    Another silly metaphor I've heard a lot is that driving the Countach is like sex with your mistress, a stripper, or (insert something really exciting here), and the TR is like nice love-making with your wife of 10 years. So what do you want when you open the garage door for a weekend drive?
     
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  8. TheMayor

    TheMayor Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 11, 2008
    53,133
    Vegas baby
    I've driven both. The TR is really more of a real car. What I mean by that is that you can use it in more in the real world. The Countach is pure toy to be used only under the very best situations.

    The Countach to me was just plain scary. Difficult to control at full throttle, difficult to see out of, difficult to sit and be comfortable in, difficult to putter around town in, impossible to park, and the side window situation is really a joke. It's also difficult to work on. You'll need to be best buddies with your mechanic.

    The TR has some similar problems but nothing like the Countach.

    But, here's the weird part.... I'd buy a Countach over the TR if given the choice. In fact, someday I'd like to have one. It's just... so weird and wonderful. It's still the only Lambo (well, aside from a Miura or course), that has ever floated my boat.
     
  9. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
    1,438
    I REALLY like the engineering that went into the TR. It's a superb car, and really sorted out from the previous Boxer. I do not know why it gets such a bad knock from the Ferrari community (tho frankly I've never likes the look of the side vents -- but that's minor)

    The countach was, I'm afraid, never really sorted out (except maybe by individuals). If I were to buy one, I wouldn't buy the lp400 because -- I've driven it enough to know -- I don't fit in it, and it's claustrophobic. I've always felt it's a 7/8th scale car, stunning as it is (especially sitting in the garage!)

    The next generation countach was simply adding some more room to the car, and though one of my favorite drives ever was an S-5000 (great car!) overall, I think the TR is just more dialed in.

    If I had to pick one, I'd pick the TR if I just wanted a car to drive, and I'd pick the countach if I wanted a car to tear apart and rebuild into the car I really wanted :) It's really a scary beast...in the best sense of the word(s)

    Fred
     
  10. 12097

    12097 Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2007
    629
    Regina, Canada
    I can't comment on the TR, but the Countach is a great car.

    Despite the beastly wild looks the car can be as docile as your basic domestic car.

    Around town it will tolerate stop and go traffic without overheating, and while the clutch is a little heavy, I have driven trucks that have heavier clutches.

    This is not to say that there are not drawbacks to the car.

    It does not have great rear vision.
    It does not have power steering.
    It does not have cruise control.
    It does not have cup holders.
    It does not have a stereo that is louder than the engine.

    And when the wifey calls me while I am driving, I can not even hear the phone ring.

    Damn! I love this car.
     
  11. ralfabco

    ralfabco F1 World Champ
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    This should be fun, to sit back and watch the comments.
     
  12. ManCar

    ManCar Karting

    May 6, 2009
    142
    Down South
    I've owned both. The CT was an 86 and the TR is an 86. Listen to the guys about clutches. When my CT first arrived I drove it from the drop off to my house, about 1.5 miles. When I got home my leg was shaking. No exaggeration. I thought my Vipers had strong clutches but they so failed in comparison. The clutch job averages 10k because you need to pull the enire engine and trans in one fell swoop to change it. Then there's the while it's out service. While it's out let's fix those leaking gaskets or rebuild the $1000 + waterpump or replace those steel braided hoses (5 @ $200 ea), etc, etc. In my opinion, parts are very hard to source and the ones sourced are usually from the regulars with astronomic pricing. Due to supply some of it was justified but others are a rip off.

    So service aside, I absolutely loved the car and I would buy another. Think of a CT as an old muscle car and the TR as a new muscle car. The old is brutal to drive but you love it's bad points so much you can't get enough. Then you drive the TR and life is so simple. Still get the low profile and attention but the drive is so much more refined. I'm a CT kind of guy but love the ease of driving the TR.

    Good luck with your decision. Just make sure you have deep pockets for either and it really helps to be handy so labor is removed from most of the work.
     
  13. debriga

    debriga Karting

    Jul 31, 2008
    94
    washington
    I can't say much about a TR, other than from looking at them up close, but I still want to drive one to see what the difference really is. From my observations they would be much easier for ingress and egress, vastly superior for driver visibility, and the interior seems more suited to everyday use in the comfort department.

    But!! ...... I own an injected Countach. Everybody says they are not comfortable for more than a few hours, but I think that depends on your personal build. I am 5' 9" and the seats fit me to a tee. I have hopped into the car on many occassions and left Vancouver, WA and arrived 30 miles from the Canadian border north of Colville, WA. That is 438 miles one way with only fuel stops (maybe one pee break?!!). That points out another strength of the car, without cupholders you don't have to stop to pee!! Now that is engineering excellance.

    A CT is not reliable? As far as the injected cars go, I would say that is not correct as long as you trash the original ignition system and replace it with a MSD box. Yah, the steering takes a bit of effort but have you ever driven any car in that weight class with manual steering that didn't? The clutch behind my old "66" 427 Chev was harder than the CT, and then let's talk about aftermarket performance clutch pressures.

    I drive mine in traffic all the time and I am not worried about jumping in it and driving long distances. It has never let me down. Never overheats, never gets tempermental, and always satisfies my primal urges!! Adrenalin rush guarenteed with each and every drive.

    I do think the TR's engine compartment looks much better (compared with an injected model) and more refined. Just looks cleaner to me. But close the engine hatches, and I'm partial to the CT. Don't get me wrong, the TR is a good looking car, but my own preferences steer me to the CT. Drive one, then form your own opinion on which you like best. Naysayers come in both varieties!!
     
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  15. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    Brian
    My former mechanic had a Countach in a couple years ago for a clutch replacement. He quoted $15k - $12k for the clutch itself, $3k in labor to pull the motor, change clutch, put it back together.

    I would love to hear from Countach owners, but the $12k clutch itself? That blew my mind (not to mention he waited 3 months after sourcing it to arrive from Italy).

    Please tell me the clutch part (even one of those Kevlar ones) doesn't cost that much?!?! That scared me away from a Countach...
     
  16. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 joe sackey, Mar 8, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. 12097

    12097 Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2007
    629
    Regina, Canada
    #15 12097, Mar 8, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010

    You can have your original clutch rebuilt using Kevlar for about $3K US

    The clutch release bearing itself can also be rebuilt at a reasonable price.........
    but a new one is just over $7K US

    Labour to R&R the engine/trans is about 30-35 hours.

    On the bright side (if your Canadian) the C$ is close to par.
     
  18. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 23, 2006
    6,192
    Italia
    it sounds to me the countach is the car you want :)

    i have seen all the cool vintage exotics and nothing looks and sound as cool as a countach. period

    the testarossa is a good car, it is nice, fast, pretty reliable and is the sensitive option...

    but in all honesty....who cares? nobody wants the sensitive option when we are talking about 25 years old 12 cil. exotics.. there is nothing sensitive about owning one ;)

    p.s. about the heavy clutch: it is not a real issue
    the 4 liter cars have an almost soft clutch, the QV has an heavy clutch stock

    a good lambo shop can up grade the QV clutch and make it as soft as on the early cars
     
  19. Skogens Baron

    Skogens Baron Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2006
    257
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Daniel
    many interresting opinions! thank you all guys.. yes.. the countach is the car I really want ;) no doubt about that.. allways been my dreamcar..

    Dont mind a heavy clutch.. real cars shouldnt be like driving a toyota ;) rear visibility we all know about, and balbonis actions to solve the problem ;) I have been sitting in a countach but thats about it.. Im 192 cm and i did fit.. but its more like putting your car on, then jumping in the testarossa..

    funny thing about the comparison between the mistress and the wife.. We all know what we want for the once in a while drive don't we.. ;)
    I dont feel that the testarossa is all that easy to drive compared to other cars.. you should have respect at wet surface and not everybody knows how to handle that bigg ass ;)

    If I compare with my urraco the testa is mutch more rafined.. The urraco feels a bit more pinchcliffe grand prix! and i love it ;) The tr seems solid built and not like the Urraco at all.. The Urraco is usable at short distances and nothing to take across europe.. with a broken differential just fixed last summer, and now with a blown headgasket its not that reliable.. Is the countach closer to the tr in relability or is it more like an urraco when your just waiting to hear a new noise? ;) For sure its about how the cars have been taken care of, but in general, a well kept tr and a well kept countach.. Its an issue to me, when you could get two tr's for the price of a good countach.. Almost ;)


    Performance isnt important at all.. In modern standards theyre not fastest anyway, and its quite similar between the two rivals.. Its the feeling thats important.. And reliability.. Its nice to trust the car.. at least a fair amount ;)

    Is it really so that the TR are the well educated great mother type of girl and the countach is the stripper? ;) TR dull in comparison? discuss! ;)

    Thank you guys, for all your input..

    cheers
    Daniel
     
  20. staatsof

    staatsof Four Time F1 World Champ
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    That's an awful lot of smileys ...
     
  21. Skogens Baron

    Skogens Baron Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2006
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    Daniel
    Yess.. Wrote it on my cell.. sorry about that.. Didnt se the whole picture before posting.. I cant edit it either???
     
  22. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Daniel, i was allowed the honor to get some good driving time in Joe Frazars ( recently sold) 85 Factory Injected 5000S. The clutch was never an issue for me, whereas the lack of visibility was, as it was not my car. i found the car to be a joy to drive, even in town. it had plenty of power, never ran hot, the A/c worked at well as could be expected ( you need working, well maintained a/c in a Countach, with that big glass windshield!)

    I never went really "fast" in the car, as it was not my car, and we were always on public roads, but it was a real treat. the single biggest draw back other than price, at my level of means, was the freaking crazy reactions from the local public when Joe and I took his car out. you had to be in a good, patient mood to deal with all the idiots.


    i have only driven a TR one time, and it was on the Roebling Road racetrack near my home. i love the looks, and the "ease" at which you can drive it, but the TR is just too heavy, in feel, and real world weight , and its too wide to really be enjoyed where i live.

    on the track it would change personalities above 80 mph, in a good way, but the cars best personality is unusable on public roads. which is why i am going to keep a collection of old, slow , "cheap" Porsche's and Ferrari's for now on, as opposed to having $$$ tied up in one car.

    i would say get yourself a Countach. a QV or a well sorted 2v Injected 5000s should be plenty of safe fun for you.

    please post pics when you do! :)
     
  23. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    Feb 23, 2006
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    can you PM about the selling price of Joe's nice FI 5000, Michael?
     
  24. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    #22 Kds, Mar 9, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
    Having driven both extensively, as well as owned a TR for a little bit, here's my take.........

    -The Countach is great for going out to dinner or a show......but if I needed to drive anywhere for more than 30 minutes, I would take a TR......as you'll need a paramedic with the "Jaws of Life" to get you out of the Countach if it is a pre-anniversary car with the non-adjustable curved seats........(+1 for the TR)

    -Both cars give you the same gut wrenching visceral feeling when you step on the loud pedal.......unless you are driving a down draft carbed Countach, which I have for quite a bit.......(+1 for the Countach)

    -Both cars draw equal amounts of stares and demand attention from the crowds, something I didn't like personally......so it's a draw on that account.

    -The TR feels fragile.......the Countach feels unbreakable......(+1 for the Countach)

    -I cannot speak from experience on repair costs, but I'd say that either car will set you back dearly when the time comes........so it is a draw here as well.

    -Price wise the cost of admission for a good TR is 1/2 the cost of a good Countach........(+1 for the TR)

    -Resale wise the TR wins hands down as it will not only sell faster, but it appeals to a much larger pool of buyers for numerous reasons......(+1 for the TR)

    -After an equivalent amount of time driving either car back to back, if you are able to get out of the Countach, you feel giddy like a teenager who just got out of the backseat of his father's Buick after fogging up the windows........whereas the TR does not do this for you.........(+1 for the Countach)
     
  25. ralfabco

    ralfabco F1 World Champ
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    I like a heavy clutch and manual steering. The clutch in the 4.0 liter cars, is easier to engage. The 4.0 liter car, also needs less shop hours, to remove the engine and transmission, for the owners who burned-out the clutch. The early cars, have less hoses and electrical connections to deal with.

    If you know how to drive the car, you can obtain good longevity with the clutch. Quite a few Countach owners, have had excellent results, with the clutch. Some owners, have never had a need to change the clutch.

    Unlike the belts on a flat-12, the clutch can be protected from wear/stress.

    ______________

    The market has demonstrated, that the Countach brings more money at the time of sale vs the 85-91 Testarossa. You have all kinds of different Countach models to choose from. You have a broad range of prices, from the LP 400 to the Anniversario. Unlike the Testarossa, some Countach models are scarce.


    After you spend some more time with the car, you will have an easier time looking out of the car.
     
  26. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran
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    +1

    I like a heavy clutch as well. Hell, call me a masochist, but I think the cars of today are too soft. And the Countach (to me) is an "event" car (a car you don't drive everyday). And I like to remember every drive, so having my "ass kicked" after a drive, I dunno, I like that. Makes me appreciate the car that much more.
     
  27. qvpower

    qvpower Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    600
    Cali
    heavy clutch? After a while, the clutch feels very much in tune with the lack of power steering... all heavy but so part of the persona. All these things make you feel like driving it is going to be always an experience rather than getting from point a to b.... Its almost like a jet plane where prior to taking off you have to do the flight check and try all the controls... you check the clutch, tug a bit at the steering wheel , all to acclimate yourself to a machine that needs to be mastered rather than to simply push in the clutch and go... Im sure thats why Ralph likes the manual steering and heavy clutch...
     

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