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Countdown til Sid (and Belgian GP)

Discussion in 'F1' started by Nortonious, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Nortonious

    Nortonious Formula Junior

    Sep 20, 2018
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    Oh great. I just found it in the Belgian GP thread (quoted below).

    This just seems wrong. How much of this controversy is continually stirred up by non-Tifosi? Expert trolls tossing grenades and undermining?


     
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  2. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    It happens all the time, we all know it, the mods now it but their position(or the position of the forum owners) is that this is a free forum, so everyone can enter and chime in, (wich i agree in principle) doesn't matter if their only purpose is to wind Ferrari fans and cause them to get banned (this is the part i disagree with)...some of them get banned too, but that doesn't matter because their primary objective is to bother and upset Ferrari fans, so they'll keep at it until they get a permanent ban...and even after that they will try to return with another avatar...
     
  3. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    I think if i did it, that would be loading the gun and pulling back the pin for the mods on me! Hehehe

    The ban from that thread was because saying you won’t get a link for an Elton fan to read, no matter how many times he harangues you to do it, means you are bullying him, and we wouldn’t want them to feel intimidated like that apparently. If anything, I feel bullied having to listen to them constantly prod at me to provide a link because they say they don’t believe a post I made - I mean, don’t believe it then
    Sunshine - but heigh ho!


    Forza Ferrari..... the only racing team and car marque that matters. Italia forever It’s easier to apologise than it is to ask permission
     
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  4. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    I will miss Pete to. Great photographer with lots of knowledge of what he was shooting. A picture is worth a thousand words.
    Seems extremely short sighted to take away the pictures to.
     
  5. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Dec 28, 2005
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    I will.
    A great photographer, Ferrarista and contributor.
    Are there F1 threads in the Rosso and Silver subscribed sections? Perhaps that might be a way to discourage the trolls?
     
  6. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    They didn’t get the take up in the subscribed sections to make the f1 set permanent there. They did try a while ago to get something going


    Forza Ferrari..... the only racing team and car marque that matters. Italia forever It’s easier to apologise than it is to ask permission
     
  7. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    Pete has asked for his pictures to be noted as not to be reproduced here as they are copywrited, but many people will be disappointed he can no longer contribute.

    It’s ridiculous that a tifosi gets banned due to the influence of anti-Ferrari ‘members’


    Forza Ferrari..... the only racing team and car marque that matters. Italia forever It’s easier to apologise than it is to ask permission
     
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  8. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS Formula Junior
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    It seems so harsh. I don't get it.
     
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  9. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    It is photographs and the information (knowledge) they contain that attracts interest in this site. It costs money to travel and go to these automotive events and then to share photographs and knowledge basically for free seems a rather one sided arrangement. Some have been extremely generous with their photo archive and encyclopedic knowledge on many topics including the cars.
    Cutting off the sources of all this fountain of knowledge can eventually destroy the reason for showing up here. . .
     
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  10. ktu

    ktu Formula Junior

    May 30, 2012
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    How did Pete get permanently banned?
     
  11. Nortonious

    Nortonious Formula Junior

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    I will miss Pete. Sadly I've seen other forums go down a similar path. In the end no one wins (except the trolls) the forum is a lesser place
     
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  12. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS Formula Junior
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    In my opinion, we have a case where an F-chatter and a mod both refused to be wrong, even though these threads are about opinion. So quite often, right or wrong isn't that big of a deal.

    Go to the Belgian Grand Prix thread.
     
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  13. ktu

    ktu Formula Junior

    May 30, 2012
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    Thanks
     
  14. ylshih

    ylshih Global Moderator
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    It is the position of mods AND forum owners that this should be an open F1 discussion forum. You can have all the opinions you want about drivers, teams and races and favor one side or the other. Perhaps it would be easier for users if they mentally erased Ferrarichat from the headings and just simply think of it as an F1 forum. We have a P&R forum that is just as intensely partisan as the F1 forum, but we don't get one side (the site is overwhelmingly conservative) shouting for the other side (the liberal minority) to be banned for trolling just because of what they post. Users there will complain about rude and insulting comments and behavior and we take care of that. The P&R users accept that we don't favor either side, regardless of the population bias or our own politics. Maybe because it is just called P&R, and not ConChat.

    Repeated arguments that it should be just Ferrari F1 or that we don't see what's going on with postings by Mercedes F1 fans are wasted effort. We do see what's going on, but the policy of the forum is that it is open and what's going to get moderated is behavior against the rules, not opinions, as cited in the thread DM linked. We've been very consistent about this, but certain users just refuse to accept it.

    The expectation that, because it is an F1 forum on a site called Ferrarichat, that users who post in favor of another team's driver are trolling, either by their very posting at all or because of repetitive posting on the same subject or points, and should be banned for trolling is simply not going to fly. It's only going to get users who refuse to accept that in trouble.

    Further, the reason that anyone "trolling" is successful at all, is because some fans let the trolls push their buttons. Surely these fans can be adult enough, mature enough, intelligent enough to see that's what's happening and refuse to be manipulated. CAN'T THEY??? If they give the trolls the satisfaction of reacting, do they think the troll is going to stop??? The trolls are laughing because they get away with an oversize reaction from making minor needling comments, the fans also make similar comments to the trolls by the way (do the fans want get banned for their comments?), and the mods are expected to fix that??? The fans should fix it themselvesby ignoring these comments or not overreacting.

    Finally, recognizing that some fans still do seem to feel that a Ferrarichat F1 forum should be a special place for Ferrari fans to trash talk all they want about the opposition without constant getting into bickerfests, we came up with the proposal of a [Forza Ferrari] tag for threads that would just be for Ferrari fans to be in their own club house. This isn't just for races, but any topic. This is intended to be an accomodation, as requested by the fans but within the framework of F1 forum policy. This allows "special places" for Ferrari fans, because the F1 forum itself is specifically not by site policy. Perhaps it will work, perhaps it won't; but this is 80-90% of what some of fans said they wanted. So why are some of you rejecting it???
     
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  15. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    Yes, Pete contribution to this site was huge, he could be persistent on his opinions but was usualy very polite and above all, unlike the trolls he was dealing with, he always, and i repeat always showed evidence and facts of his opinions, again, unlike many that just show up, trhow a match and just wait for the fire to start.
    Pete had huge trouble to justify his posts and opinions, he was in my view one of the very best examples of how one should act and behave during a discussion.
    I understand and respect the fact that you don't have to be a Ferrari fan to be here, but i can't agree that a valid menber with a huge contribution to this place is banned because he stood against a bunch of people that clearly only have the objective of disrupting this site.
    In this case we all lost, and the trolls can celebrate another victim.
     
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  16. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    Yin, i wrote my last post while you posted yours so i didn't see it before posting it.
    WE took notice of the "special place", and i think it's a good idea, Sid started it and i don't mind keeping it up, if that's the way, so be it, but, just to prove our point, as soon as Sid started it, you could see how a certain poster imediatly tried to creat trouble (to be fair to you guys, this time the mods acted quickly and he was dispatched with a ban), but again, it just proves what some people intentions trully are. When many of us started to post in the Aussi section, that same menber folowed us there trying to start trouble (again, the Aussies took care of him in their own fashion).
    I know this is a hard place to run, i know sport leads to tough discussions, and i know you guys have a tough job, but Pete didn't deserve a permanent ban.
     
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  17. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    No one expects the place to be just ferrari, when has anyone ever said that there should be a rule that you must be a tifosi to be here, but there IS an expectation that as the majority of the place ARE tifosi, since the place is on a Ferrari biased website, these trolls that bait and bait, and then report you as soon as you respond in any way, are not valuable posters like peter in any understanding. If they turned up and claimed Elton was the best and left it at that, then great, but they don’t, they come up with ******** statistics and constant chatter about absolute ****, constantly posting only to bait and incite, and are surprised when the general consensus of opinion doesn’t go their way.

    There are also the veiled offensive posts made, accusing people of being racists, and of course, attacking people personally and getting clean away with it, while people like peter, or me, or Bas, get bans left right and centre. Some bans may be justified, no doubt, but some are just complete bollocks - like my thread ban for bullying which, if you look at the posts causing it, most would probably say that I was actually banned for BEING bullied, as I was the one on the receiving end of constant demands for attention from someone, how saying no to someone is bullying is beyond me, and if it were a case of some kind of attitude or tone, then both of us would have had the ban, not just the tifosi that has the target on his back. If I had wanted to be bullying or rude to him, then I could have made one single sentence to do so, why did I make numerous humorous comments in response do you think, couldn’t have been to try to keep the situation off the boil eh?

    I don’t think anyone here on the Ferrari fan side of the table wants the constant aggravation that seems to afflict things, but it needs effort from both sides to resolve. I try very hard to ignore the ********, but if it goes unchecked, then sometimes even the most sensible and calm people lose their patience, let alone hot headed people like me. How many times do new people come here and post a sentence along the lines of ‘why do mercedes fans come here to bait ferrari fans’. It’s not me saying it, it’s individuals, one posted exactly that today in one thread, and they are right - why? There is nothing wrong at all with us all being fans and chatting, and I’d expect the odd disagreement in that case. However, this isn’t a few fans daring to be in the lions den and occasionally being a bit forceful, this is a concerted effort to attack Ferrari on a majority Ferrari fan forum, and no one can argue that it isn’t a Ferrari focussed site, because the majority of us come because of the name as we are owners, fans or at the least interested in Ferrari. What is the attraction of arriving here only to make trouble? Is it really so much fun to do it? To me, it seems so wierd.
     
  18. ylshih

    ylshih Global Moderator
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    #393 ylshih, Sep 10, 2019 at 5:35 PM
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019 at 5:42 PM
    Which also shows we know what's going on, don't think we don't. However, we operate 80-90% by behavior and 10-20% by perceived intent. Even handed moderation means if we ban Mercedes fans for a certain type of comment, then we ban Ferrari fans for the same type of content. Some of you don't see how the reports you make to us about certain users would simply rebound double on you if we acted on them fairly.

    Actually he did:

    You acknowledge that it's a hard place to run and it's a tough job, so do us the courtesy of assuming we want to get it right, but we have to follow the policy that's been established. If you constantly kick sand on an umpire, just because you don't like the call that comes out of the rule book, you're going to get ejected.

    That being said, I will relent under one condition. Peter can come back with a 30 day limited ban IF he promises that he will complain about any moderation action ONCE and then he will stop. He gets to have his say, so I'm not shutting him up. And I promise I know that every mod , including me, pays attention to every mod criticism made against them, whether they agree with it or not. But you don't have to repeat it ad nauseum; say it once and be done, enough is enough,

    There you go again. After a lengthy explanation of how everyone gets to post, you still revert to "it's a Ferrari majority site". As I pointed out to Peter, a number of user registrations pre-date Hamilton's F1 career. He rejected that point with some convoluted reasoning, but he simply doesn't know. Based on comments, a number of such users feel they're tifosi, perhaps because they're fans of the road cars versus the Scuderia's F1 efforts, and have dual loyalties. You may not consider them true tifosi, but they feel differently. We're not going to moderate against one group just because of disagreement about who's a true tifosi. It's like Catholics verus Protestants, they're still both Christians.

    With that, I'm done. If Peter wants to contact me, he knows how to do so.
     
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  19. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    OMG..... I wrote quite the post there to make sure it was easy to understand.... but again, assumptions made that simply do not feature in my post, or certainly seem to take a different inference from it than was written and intended. Maybe it’s just me and the way I write, but where on earth did I try to differentiate between owners (me), f1 fans (me again) and anything else? Am I reading the same post everyone else does?
     
  20. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    That being said, I will relent under one condition. Peter can come back with a 30 day limited ban IF he promises that he will complain about any moderation action ONCE and then he will stop. He gets to have his say, so I'm not shutting him up. And I promise I know that every mod , including me, pays attention to every mod criticism made against them, whether they agree with it or not. But you don't have to repeat it ad nauseum; say it once and be done, enough is enough,

    Thanks for giving Peter another chance, i'm not sure if he will take it or not, i really hope so because in the end we all win with his presence.
    I supose since he's banned that he can't read any of this so i hope someone can reach him so he can talk to you and set things straight.
     
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  21. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    I’ve reached him with this offer, so I too hope he takes it up.

    It may be a good idea to monitor the posts of others for at least a few hours when he returns lest he experience the baiting I received when I returned, as this could then be dealt with quietly and without fuss if necessary


    Forza Ferrari..... the only racing team and car marque that matters. Italia forever It’s easier to apologise than it is to ask permission
     
  22. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    This has been my impression from the start, and one of the reasons I like this forum.
    However, the atmosphere and the tone have been getting worse in the last 2 years, with real warfare between different positions.
    There is a clique among Ferrari supporters that prétends they own the forum and wishes to shut any discussion they don't approve.
    The core of their argument is that they won't tolerate anything but comments about Ferrari, or they react negatively.
    This has led to verbal attacks, sarcasms, rude comments, bad jokes, childish behaviour and more . It's simply nasty.
    I have seen several interesting contributors to the F1 forum leave because of it.
    I was moderated myself, as you know very well, when my temper got the best of my better judgement.
    I have put some people on ignore to cut arguments short, as I do not like to entertain unnecessary polemics.
    This not my forum, I consider myself a guest, and therefore I accept the rules and the mods décisions towards me.
     
  23. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    Need I ever say anything guys? I hurt myself when I fell off the chair laughing today, I wonder why


    Forza Ferrari..... the only racing team and car marque that matters. Italia forever It’s easier to apologise than it is to ask permission
     

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